The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

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The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
Greetings, CALENDAR PEOPLE:

I am currently reading a fascinating book entitled, "The Calendar in Revolutionary France: Perceptions of Time in Literature, Culture, Politics" by Sanja Perovic. The book is at once a history of the FRC and a biography of Sylvain Marechal, who, although he did not invent the calendar as we currently know it, was the first to come up with a calendar that had 10-day "weeks", and replaced the Saints with all secular figures. In this sense it was like the Positivist Calendar. He started the year with March and ended it in February.

I am only in Ch. 3, but already I have learned a few key things. The French Revolution was led by men who truly thought they could create a new Society of Virtue on the ashes of the old society they had just destroyed. This society would have all the elements of a religion, but without a God. It would be a society that worshipped Lady Virtue, which busts would replace the Virgin Mary. A new calendar would create a rupture with time, and start a new time, incomparably greater and better than what had come before. I am about halfway through the book. I shall keep you updated, but already, I have some ideas.

Use of a 12x30 month scheme, with the five or six Blank Days, and a ten-day Decade. The five Blank Days would continue to honour Virtue, Opinion, Genius, Labour, and Rewards, with the sixth day being different for every country. The rest of the days would be named after men and women of great secular achievement, much like the Positivist Calendar. The months could either retain their current names or be simply named after their order, much like the ancient Roman months were, starting with Quintilis, and ending with December (when there were only ten months). They could be named after their number in Latin, which has always been the language of internationalism, much more-so than Esperanto ever has been or ever will be. Even today, scientific names are in Latin. The Roman Catholics, until recently worshipped in Latin, and that practice is gaining in popularity again.

The year could start from 1 at the time of the adoption of the calendar, and would be called the New Era, either in the language of the country, or even better yet, in Latin, (Era Novum), E.N. by abbreviation. All years prior to year One would be -1, etc, Old Era (Era Vetus), E.V. by abbreviation.

Why do I insist on on a 12x30, with a 10-day decade, in spite of the whiners (including the Chief Whiner [you know who you are]) who say its too inconvenient? The goal is "Breaking with Old Ideas" (which is actually the name of a film from the People's Republic of China, I believe about 1975). No religion should be catered to. Not Christianity, not Islam, not Judaism, Hinduism, none of them.

The State would propagate a Cult of the Supreme Being. It would be patterned after the same Cult that was propagated in France. A Deistic God, for a State that won't dictate a Confession, but in the absence of one, will dictate Faith. Atheism absolutely would be forbidden. Temples to the Supreme Being would be built in the pattern of those from Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, though in other parts of the world, ancient temple patterns from a country's history could be utilised. The default would be the Roman and Greek models. Services to the Supreme Being would be created to rival the beauty of any church or temple today. The clergy for this religion would be salaried State officials. The Cult would dictate basic codes of morality, and would inculcate a respect for the Institutions of the State.

Of course, I am going to get a chorus of protests about this, and that is perfectly fine. I shall try to answer each one in turn. The Chief Whiner (you DO know who you are) is welcome to protest, but I may or may not deign to respond to you. This whole concept is so far above your mental capacity to comprehend, Chief Whiner, that your complaints are rather like the bleeting of a sheep.

But everyone ELSE is WELCOME to respond to anything I have said here. I realise that this is very revolutionary, and many people would disagree with me here. And that is perfectly fine. If there weren't disagreement, society would not be healthy.

Regards,
Jamison

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
It should be noted that the first Cult of Virtue in France WAS atheistic. The later Cult of the Supreme Being was most expressly NOT atheist. The Cult of Virtue was commonly also called the Cult of Reason.

Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Greetings, CALENDAR PEOPLE:
>
>I am currently reading a fascinating book entitled, "The Calendar in Revolutionary France: Perceptions of Time in Literature, Culture, Politics" by Sanja Perovic. The book is at once a history of the FRC and a biography of Sylvain Marechal, who, although he did not invent the calendar as we currently know it, was the first to come up with a calendar that had 10-day "weeks", and replaced the Saints with all secular figures. In this sense it was like the Positivist Calendar. He started the year with March and ended it in February.
>
>I am only in Ch. 3, but already I have learned a few key things. The French Revolution was led by men who truly thought they could create a new Society of Virtue on the ashes of the old society they had just destroyed. This society would have all the elements of a religion, but without a God. It would be a society that worshipped Lady Virtue, which busts would replace the Virgin Mary. A new calendar would create a rupture with time, and start a new time, incomparably greater and better than what had come before. I am about halfway through the book. I shall keep you updated, but already, I have some ideas.
>
>Use of a 12x30 month scheme, with the five or six Blank Days, and a ten-day Decade. The five Blank Days would continue to honour Virtue, Opinion, Genius, Labour, and Rewards, with the sixth day being different for every country. The rest of the days would be named after men and women of great secular achievement, much like the Positivist Calendar. The months could either retain their current names or be simply named after their order, much like the ancient Roman months were, starting with Quintilis, and ending with December (when there were only ten months). They could be named after their number in Latin, which has always been the language of internationalism, much more-so than Esperanto ever has been or ever will be. Even today, scientific names are in Latin. The Roman Catholics, until recently worshipped in Latin, and that practice is gaining in popularity again.
>
>The year could start from 1 at the time of the adoption of the calendar, and would be called the New Era, either in the language of the country, or even better yet, in Latin, (Era Novum), E.N. by abbreviation. All years prior to year One would be -1, etc, Old Era (Era Vetus), E.V. by abbreviation.
>
>Why do I insist on on a 12x30, with a 10-day decade, in spite of the whiners (including the Chief Whiner [you know who you are]) who say its too inconvenient? The goal is "Breaking with Old Ideas" (which is actually the name of a film from the People's Republic of China, I believe about 1975). No religion should be catered to. Not Christianity, not Islam, not Judaism, Hinduism, none of them.
>
>The State would propagate a Cult of the Supreme Being. It would be patterned after the same Cult that was propagated in France. A Deistic God, for a State that won't dictate a Confession, but in the absence of one, will dictate Faith. Atheism absolutely would be forbidden. Temples to the Supreme Being would be built in the pattern of those from Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, though in other parts of the world, ancient temple patterns from a country's history could be utilised. The default would be the Roman and Greek models. Services to the Supreme Being would be created to rival the beauty of any church or temple today. The clergy for this religion would be salaried State officials. The Cult would dictate basic codes of morality, and would inculcate a respect for the Institutions of the State.
>
>Of course, I am going to get a chorus of protests about this, and that is perfectly fine. I shall try to answer each one in turn. The Chief Whiner (you DO know who you are) is welcome to protest, but I may or may not deign to respond to you. This whole concept is so far above your mental capacity to comprehend, Chief Whiner, that your complaints are rather like the bleeting of a sheep.
>
>But everyone ELSE is WELCOME to respond to anything I have said here. I realise that this is very revolutionary, and many people would disagree with me here. And that is perfectly fine. If there weren't disagreement, society would not be healthy.
>
>Regards,
>Jamison
>
>3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
>28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Amos Shapir-2
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Hi Jamison and calendar people,

The French Revolutionary "new order" seems to have just copied the entire structure of the Catholic church -- complete with an authoritarian regime, hierarchies, saints an all -- just renamed everything and let the State run it.  State official would of course be absolutely virtuous and never abuse their power for their own personal interests...

As I said before, there is no sure way to make a calendar reform successful, but there is a sure way to make it fail: Trying to change *everything* about people's lives.  The FRC is no exception.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 5:18 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings, CALENDAR PEOPLE:

I am currently reading a fascinating book entitled, "The Calendar in Revolutionary France: Perceptions of Time in Literature, Culture, Politics" by Sanja Perovic. The book is at once a history of the FRC and a biography of Sylvain Marechal, who, although he did not invent the calendar as we currently know it, was the first to come up with a calendar that had 10-day "weeks", and replaced the Saints with all secular figures. In this sense it was like the Positivist Calendar. He started the year with March and ended it in February.

I am only in Ch. 3, but already I have learned a few key things. The French Revolution was led by men who truly thought they could create a new Society of Virtue on the ashes of the old society they had just destroyed. This society would have all the elements of a religion, but without a God. It would be a society that worshipped Lady Virtue, which busts would replace the Virgin Mary. A new calendar would create a rupture with time, and start a new time, incomparably greater and better than what had come before. I am about halfway through the book. I shall keep you updated, but already, I have some ideas.

Use of a 12x30 month scheme, with the five or six Blank Days, and a ten-day Decade. The five Blank Days would continue to honour Virtue, Opinion, Genius, Labour, and Rewards, with the sixth day being different for every country. The rest of the days would be named after men and women of great secular achievement, much like the Positivist Calendar. The months could either retain their current names or be simply named after their order, much like the ancient Roman months were, starting with Quintilis, and ending with December (when there were only ten months). They could be named after their number in Latin, which has always been the language of internationalism, much more-so than Esperanto ever has been or ever will be. Even today, scientific names are in Latin. The Roman Catholics, until recently worshipped in Latin, and that practice is gaining in popularity again.

The year could start from 1 at the time of the adoption of the calendar, and would be called the New Era, either in the language of the country, or even better yet, in Latin, (Era Novum), E.N. by abbreviation. All years prior to year One would be -1, etc, Old Era (Era Vetus), E.V. by abbreviation.

Why do I insist on on a 12x30, with a 10-day decade, in spite of the whiners (including the Chief Whiner [you know who you are]) who say its too inconvenient? The goal is "Breaking with Old Ideas" (which is actually the name of a film from the People's Republic of China, I believe about 1975). No religion should be catered to. Not Christianity, not Islam, not Judaism, Hinduism, none of them.

The State would propagate a Cult of the Supreme Being. It would be patterned after the same Cult that was propagated in France. A Deistic God, for a State that won't dictate a Confession, but in the absence of one, will dictate Faith. Atheism absolutely would be forbidden. Temples to the Supreme Being would be built in the pattern of those from Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, though in other parts of the world, ancient temple patterns from a country's history could be utilised. The default would be the Roman and Greek models. Services to the Supreme Being would be created to rival the beauty of any church or temple today. The clergy for this religion would be salaried State officials. The Cult would dictate basic codes of morality, and would inculcate a respect for the Institutions of the State.

Of course, I am going to get a chorus of protests about this, and that is perfectly fine. I shall try to answer each one in turn. The Chief Whiner (you DO know who you are) is welcome to protest, but I may or may not deign to respond to you. This whole concept is so far above your mental capacity to comprehend, Chief Whiner, that your complaints are rather like the bleeting of a sheep.

But everyone ELSE is WELCOME to respond to anything I have said here. I realise that this is very revolutionary, and many people would disagree with me here. And that is perfectly fine. If there weren't disagreement, society would not be healthy.

Regards,
Jamison

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder


--
Amos Shapir
 
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
AMOS, and to be sure, I agree with you. I am NOT suggesting this could ever happen. It would be nice in an ideal State and world. This is neither the ideal State, nor world. But hey, shoot for the stars you might get to the Moon. Shoot for the Moon, you barely get off the surface.

Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades

Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jamison and calendar people,

The French Revolutionary "new order" seems to have just copied the entire structure of the Catholic church -- complete with an authoritarian regime, hierarchies, saints an all -- just renamed everything and let the State run it.  State official would of course be absolutely virtuous and never abuse their power for their own personal interests...

As I said before, there is no sure way to make a calendar reform successful, but there is a sure way to make it fail: Trying to change *everything* about people's lives.  The FRC is no exception.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 5:18 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings, CALENDAR PEOPLE:

I am currently reading a fascinating book entitled, "The Calendar in Revolutionary France: Perceptions of Time in Literature, Culture, Politics" by Sanja Perovic. The book is at once a history of the FRC and a biography of Sylvain Marechal, who, although he did not invent the calendar as we currently know it, was the first to come up with a calendar that had 10-day "weeks", and replaced the Saints with all secular figures. In this sense it was like the Positivist Calendar. He started the year with March and ended it in February.

I am only in Ch. 3, but already I have learned a few key things. The French Revolution was led by men who truly thought they could create a new Society of Virtue on the ashes of the old society they had just destroyed. This society would have all the elements of a religion, but without a God. It would be a society that worshipped Lady Virtue, which busts would replace the Virgin Mary. A new calendar would create a rupture with time, and start a new time, incomparably greater and better than what had come before. I am about halfway through the book. I shall keep you updated, but already, I have some ideas.

Use of a 12x30 month scheme, with the five or six Blank Days, and a ten-day Decade. The five Blank Days would continue to honour Virtue, Opinion, Genius, Labour, and Rewards, with the sixth day being different for every country. The rest of the days would be named after men and women of great secular achievement, much like the Positivist Calendar. The months could either retain their current names or be simply named after their order, much like the ancient Roman months were, starting with Quintilis, and ending with December (when there were only ten months). They could be named after their number in Latin, which has always been the language of internationalism, much more-so than Esperanto ever has been or ever will be. Even today, scientific names are in Latin. The Roman Catholics, until recently worshipped in Latin, and that practice is gaining in popularity again.

The year could start from 1 at the time of the adoption of the calendar, and would be called the New Era, either in the language of the country, or even better yet, in Latin, (Era Novum), E.N. by abbreviation. All years prior to year One would be -1, etc, Old Era (Era Vetus), E.V. by abbreviation.

Why do I insist on on a 12x30, with a 10-day decade, in spite of the whiners (including the Chief Whiner [you know who you are]) who say its too inconvenient? The goal is "Breaking with Old Ideas" (which is actually the name of a film from the People's Republic of China, I believe about 1975). No religion should be catered to. Not Christianity, not Islam, not Judaism, Hinduism, none of them.

The State would propagate a Cult of the Supreme Being. It would be patterned after the same Cult that was propagated in France. A Deistic God, for a State that won't dictate a Confession, but in the absence of one, will dictate Faith. Atheism absolutely would be forbidden. Temples to the Supreme Being would be built in the pattern of those from Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, though in other parts of the world, ancient temple patterns from a country's history could be utilised. The default would be the Roman and Greek models. Services to the Supreme Being would be created to rival the beauty of any church or temple today. The clergy for this religion would be salaried State officials. The Cult would dictate basic codes of morality, and would inculcate a respect for the Institutions of the State.

Of course, I am going to get a chorus of protests about this, and that is perfectly fine. I shall try to answer each one in turn. The Chief Whiner (you DO know who you are) is welcome to protest, but I may or may not deign to respond to you. This whole concept is so far above your mental capacity to comprehend, Chief Whiner, that your complaints are rather like the bleeting of a sheep.

But everyone ELSE is WELCOME to respond to anything I have said here. I realise that this is very revolutionary, and many people would disagree with me here. And that is perfectly fine. If there weren't disagreement, society would not be healthy.

Regards,
Jamison

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder


--
Amos Shapir
 
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
AMOS:

There is not only "no sure way" to make Calendar Reform successful, there is virtually no way at all. PEOPLE DON'T WANT CALENDAR REFORM!!!

That is just a fact of life. People are happy with what they have. The only way Calendar Reform will EVER be contemplated is when a race of Ubermensch (sp?), the Super-Man of Nietzsche, inhabits the planet. Then, and ONLY then, will people be prepared to accept the development into the ideal society, with the ideal calendar, that we all like to talk about.

You see, AMOS (and others), the fact that WE can see the ways to make society better makes us Ubermenschen. We are the Super-Men of today. We have to vision, currently not shared by others of a better world, a better way of life. All 185 of us on this list, with the probable exception of the Chief Whiner (you know who you are), are Super-Men to one degree or other. That is just how that works out.

Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades.

Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jamison and calendar people,

The French Revolutionary "new order" seems to have just copied the entire structure of the Catholic church -- complete with an authoritarian regime, hierarchies, saints an all -- just renamed everything and let the State run it.  State official would of course be absolutely virtuous and never abuse their power for their own personal interests...

As I said before, there is no sure way to make a calendar reform successful, but there is a sure way to make it fail: Trying to change *everything* about people's lives.  The FRC is no exception.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 5:18 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings, CALENDAR PEOPLE:

I am currently reading a fascinating book entitled, "The Calendar in Revolutionary France: Perceptions of Time in Literature, Culture, Politics" by Sanja Perovic. The book is at once a history of the FRC and a biography of Sylvain Marechal, who, although he did not invent the calendar as we currently know it, was the first to come up with a calendar that had 10-day "weeks", and replaced the Saints with all secular figures. In this sense it was like the Positivist Calendar. He started the year with March and ended it in February.

I am only in Ch. 3, but already I have learned a few key things. The French Revolution was led by men who truly thought they could create a new Society of Virtue on the ashes of the old society they had just destroyed. This society would have all the elements of a religion, but without a God. It would be a society that worshipped Lady Virtue, which busts would replace the Virgin Mary. A new calendar would create a rupture with time, and start a new time, incomparably greater and better than what had come before. I am about halfway through the book. I shall keep you updated, but already, I have some ideas.

Use of a 12x30 month scheme, with the five or six Blank Days, and a ten-day Decade. The five Blank Days would continue to honour Virtue, Opinion, Genius, Labour, and Rewards, with the sixth day being different for every country. The rest of the days would be named after men and women of great secular achievement, much like the Positivist Calendar. The months could either retain their current names or be simply named after their order, much like the ancient Roman months were, starting with Quintilis, and ending with December (when there were only ten months). They could be named after their number in Latin, which has always been the language of internationalism, much more-so than Esperanto ever has been or ever will be. Even today, scientific names are in Latin. The Roman Catholics, until recently worshipped in Latin, and that practice is gaining in popularity again.

The year could start from 1 at the time of the adoption of the calendar, and would be called the New Era, either in the language of the country, or even better yet, in Latin, (Era Novum), E.N. by abbreviation. All years prior to year One would be -1, etc, Old Era (Era Vetus), E.V. by abbreviation.

Why do I insist on on a 12x30, with a 10-day decade, in spite of the whiners (including the Chief Whiner [you know who you are]) who say its too inconvenient? The goal is "Breaking with Old Ideas" (which is actually the name of a film from the People's Republic of China, I believe about 1975). No religion should be catered to. Not Christianity, not Islam, not Judaism, Hinduism, none of them.

The State would propagate a Cult of the Supreme Being. It would be patterned after the same Cult that was propagated in France. A Deistic God, for a State that won't dictate a Confession, but in the absence of one, will dictate Faith. Atheism absolutely would be forbidden. Temples to the Supreme Being would be built in the pattern of those from Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, though in other parts of the world, ancient temple patterns from a country's history could be utilised. The default would be the Roman and Greek models. Services to the Supreme Being would be created to rival the beauty of any church or temple today. The clergy for this religion would be salaried State officials. The Cult would dictate basic codes of morality, and would inculcate a respect for the Institutions of the State.

Of course, I am going to get a chorus of protests about this, and that is perfectly fine. I shall try to answer each one in turn. The Chief Whiner (you DO know who you are) is welcome to protest, but I may or may not deign to respond to you. This whole concept is so far above your mental capacity to comprehend, Chief Whiner, that your complaints are rather like the bleeting of a sheep.

But everyone ELSE is WELCOME to respond to anything I have said here. I realise that this is very revolutionary, and many people would disagree with me here. And that is perfectly fine. If there weren't disagreement, society would not be healthy.

Regards,
Jamison

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder


--
Amos Shapir
 
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Michael H Deckers
In reply to this post by Amos Shapir-2
On 2019-04-23 08:18, Amos Shapir wrote:

> The French Revolutionary "new order" seems to have just copied the entire
> structure of the Catholic church -- complete with an authoritarian regime,
> hierarchies, saints an all -- just renamed everything and let the State run
> it.  State official would of course be absolutely virtuous and never abuse
> their power for their own personal interests...
>
> As I said before, there is no sure way to make a calendar reform
> successful, but there is a sure way to make it fail: Trying to change
> *everything* about people's lives.  The FRC is no exception.
>


    Yes. It is quite instructive to compare the
    early histories of the French Republican
    calendar and of the metric system. Both
    were proposed to be rational and decimal.

    The metric system mended a defect
    in the (continental) measurement systems at
    the time: the prototype units were grossly
    different and even the multiples and
    subdivisions were not the same everywhere.

    The French Republican Calendar, however,
    did not correct any error or inconvenience
    of the Gregorian calendar; it was proposed
    at least partly because it was seen as a
    tool against the Church. On the contrary,
    its introduction led to new inconveniences
    that necessitated revisions (eg, the week was
    reintroduced in 1802).

    This was clearly expressed in 1805 by Laplace
    who reported the advice of the commission charged
    by Bonaparte to consider the abolishment of the
    French Republican Calendar:
       "Among all the possible calendars, neither [of the
        French Republican and the Gregorian] is the
        most natural or the most simple."

    On the other hand, the metric system was meant as
    an international system from the very beginning,
    and carefully worked out by scientests.

    Michael Deckers.
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

sparkielee
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Jamison and Calendar People,

I always thought that there would be too much resistance to Calendar Reform since I joined this group. In fact I was reasonably happy with the Gregorian calendar but I joined because I thought this discussion and the alternative calendars would be quite interesting.

I still think they are and would like to learn more about them. In fact I'm watching a book on eBay about the FRC. I can't remember the title so I don't know if it's the same one you're reading or not.

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder



On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 6:12 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
AMOS:

There is not only "no sure way" to make Calendar Reform successful, there is virtually no way at all. PEOPLE DON'T WANT CALENDAR REFORM!!!

That is just a fact of life. People are happy with what they have. The only way Calendar Reform will EVER be contemplated is when a race of Ubermensch (sp?), the Super-Man of Nietzsche, inhabits the planet. Then, and ONLY then, will people be prepared to accept the development into the ideal society, with the ideal calendar, that we all like to talk about.

You see, AMOS (and others), the fact that WE can see the ways to make society better makes us Ubermenschen. We are the Super-Men of today. We have to vision, currently not shared by others of a better world, a better way of life. All 185 of us on this list, with the probable exception of the Chief Whiner (you know who you are), are Super-Men to one degree or other. That is just how that works out.

Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades.

Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jamison and calendar people,

The French Revolutionary "new order" seems to have just copied the entire structure of the Catholic church -- complete with an authoritarian regime, hierarchies, saints an all -- just renamed everything and let the State run it.  State official would of course be absolutely virtuous and never abuse their power for their own personal interests...

As I said before, there is no sure way to make a calendar reform successful, but there is a sure way to make it fail: Trying to change *everything* about people's lives.  The FRC is no exception.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 5:18 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings, CALENDAR PEOPLE:

I am currently reading a fascinating book entitled, "The Calendar in Revolutionary France: Perceptions of Time in Literature, Culture, Politics" by Sanja Perovic. The book is at once a history of the FRC and a biography of Sylvain Marechal, who, although he did not invent the calendar as we currently know it, was the first to come up with a calendar that had 10-day "weeks", and replaced the Saints with all secular figures. In this sense it was like the Positivist Calendar. He started the year with March and ended it in February.

I am only in Ch. 3, but already I have learned a few key things. The French Revolution was led by men who truly thought they could create a new Society of Virtue on the ashes of the old society they had just destroyed. This society would have all the elements of a religion, but without a God. It would be a society that worshipped Lady Virtue, which busts would replace the Virgin Mary. A new calendar would create a rupture with time, and start a new time, incomparably greater and better than what had come before. I am about halfway through the book. I shall keep you updated, but already, I have some ideas.

Use of a 12x30 month scheme, with the five or six Blank Days, and a ten-day Decade. The five Blank Days would continue to honour Virtue, Opinion, Genius, Labour, and Rewards, with the sixth day being different for every country. The rest of the days would be named after men and women of great secular achievement, much like the Positivist Calendar. The months could either retain their current names or be simply named after their order, much like the ancient Roman months were, starting with Quintilis, and ending with December (when there were only ten months). They could be named after their number in Latin, which has always been the language of internationalism, much more-so than Esperanto ever has been or ever will be. Even today, scientific names are in Latin. The Roman Catholics, until recently worshipped in Latin, and that practice is gaining in popularity again.

The year could start from 1 at the time of the adoption of the calendar, and would be called the New Era, either in the language of the country, or even better yet, in Latin, (Era Novum), E.N. by abbreviation. All years prior to year One would be -1, etc, Old Era (Era Vetus), E.V. by abbreviation.

Why do I insist on on a 12x30, with a 10-day decade, in spite of the whiners (including the Chief Whiner [you know who you are]) who say its too inconvenient? The goal is "Breaking with Old Ideas" (which is actually the name of a film from the People's Republic of China, I believe about 1975). No religion should be catered to. Not Christianity, not Islam, not Judaism, Hinduism, none of them.

The State would propagate a Cult of the Supreme Being. It would be patterned after the same Cult that was propagated in France. A Deistic God, for a State that won't dictate a Confession, but in the absence of one, will dictate Faith. Atheism absolutely would be forbidden. Temples to the Supreme Being would be built in the pattern of those from Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, though in other parts of the world, ancient temple patterns from a country's history could be utilised. The default would be the Roman and Greek models. Services to the Supreme Being would be created to rival the beauty of any church or temple today. The clergy for this religion would be salaried State officials. The Cult would dictate basic codes of morality, and would inculcate a respect for the Institutions of the State.

Of course, I am going to get a chorus of protests about this, and that is perfectly fine. I shall try to answer each one in turn. The Chief Whiner (you DO know who you are) is welcome to protest, but I may or may not deign to respond to you. This whole concept is so far above your mental capacity to comprehend, Chief Whiner, that your complaints are rather like the bleeting of a sheep.

But everyone ELSE is WELCOME to respond to anything I have said here. I realise that this is very revolutionary, and many people would disagree with me here. And that is perfectly fine. If there weren't disagreement, society would not be healthy.

Regards,
Jamison

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder


--
Amos Shapir
 
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
MICHAEL D:

The seven-day week was actually re-introduced in 1801. Certainly the development of the Calendar was intended to de-christianise France. But the question we have to ask NOW is the following: Regardless of the reasons why the Founders of the French Republic decided to use both the FRC and the Metric system (and I DO agree with your analysis of why the Metric System, except for Decimal Time, was successful), is there any benefit TODAY in using a 12x30 calendar with 5/6 Blank Days, modelled AFTER, but not the same as, the FRC? Right now, I am thinking that one could name the months after their numerical appearance in Latin, and use the Positivist Calendar names of distinguished individuals, or perhaps Sylvain Marechal's names.

To answer my own question, I believe that there IS benefit to using such a calendar. I have laid out those benefits in previous e-mails. Those are my thoughts at present.

Regards,
Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades

Michael H Deckers <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 2019-04-23 08:18, Amos Shapir wrote:
>> The French Revolutionary "new order" seems to have just copied the entire
>> structure of the Catholic church -- complete with an authoritarian regime,
>> hierarchies, saints an all -- just renamed everything and let the State run
>> it.  State official would of course be absolutely virtuous and never abuse
>> their power for their own personal interests...
>>
>> As I said before, there is no sure way to make a calendar reform
>> successful, but there is a sure way to make it fail: Trying to change
>> *everything* about people's lives.  The FRC is no exception.
>>
>
>
>    Yes. It is quite instructive to compare the
>    early histories of the French Republican
>    calendar and of the metric system. Both
>    were proposed to be rational and decimal.
>
>    The metric system mended a defect
>    in the (continental) measurement systems at
>    the time: the prototype units were grossly
>    different and even the multiples and
>    subdivisions were not the same everywhere.
>
>    The French Republican Calendar, however,
>    did not correct any error or inconvenience
>    of the Gregorian calendar; it was proposed
>    at least partly because it was seen as a
>    tool against the Church. On the contrary,
>    its introduction led to new inconveniences
>    that necessitated revisions (eg, the week was
>    reintroduced in 1802).
>
>    This was clearly expressed in 1805 by Laplace
>    who reported the advice of the commission charged
>    by Bonaparte to consider the abolishment of the
>    French Republican Calendar:
>       "Among all the possible calendars, neither [of the
>        French Republican and the Gregorian] is the
>        most natural or the most simple."
>
>    On the other hand, the metric system was meant as
>    an international system from the very beginning,
>    and carefully worked out by scientests.
>
>    Michael Deckers.
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
PAULA:

I agree, whole-heartedly. I joined this group to hear about various calendars either proposed, currently in use, or historical. I am kind of working on my own calendar idea at this point now. Its kind of a blend of the FRC and the Positivist Calendar, taking the format of the FRC and the names of individuals from the Positivist Calendar. I haven't written down anything yet, but the idea is floating around my head. I don't care if anyone other than me uses it, but I AM thinking about it, and may put pen to paper later today.

Paula Spart <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison and Calendar People,

I always thought that there would be too much resistance to Calendar Reform since I joined this group. In fact I was reasonably happy with the Gregorian calendar but I joined because I thought this discussion and the alternative calendars would be quite interesting.

I still think they are and would like to learn more about them. In fact I'm watching a book on eBay about the FRC. I can't remember the title so I don't know if it's the same one you're reading or not.

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder



On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 6:12 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
AMOS:

There is not only "no sure way" to make Calendar Reform successful, there is virtually no way at all. PEOPLE DON'T WANT CALENDAR REFORM!!!

That is just a fact of life. People are happy with what they have. The only way Calendar Reform will EVER be contemplated is when a race of Ubermensch (sp?), the Super-Man of Nietzsche, inhabits the planet. Then, and ONLY then, will people be prepared to accept the development into the ideal society, with the ideal calendar, that we all like to talk about.

You see, AMOS (and others), the fact that WE can see the ways to make society better makes us Ubermenschen. We are the Super-Men of today. We have to vision, currently not shared by others of a better world, a better way of life. All 185 of us on this list, with the probable exception of the Chief Whiner (you know who you are), are Super-Men to one degree or other. That is just how that works out.

Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades.

Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jamison and calendar people,

The French Revolutionary "new order" seems to have just copied the entire structure of the Catholic church -- complete with an authoritarian regime, hierarchies, saints an all -- just renamed everything and let the State run it.  State official would of course be absolutely virtuous and never abuse their power for their own personal interests...

As I said before, there is no sure way to make a calendar reform successful, but there is a sure way to make it fail: Trying to change *everything* about people's lives.  The FRC is no exception.

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 5:18 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Greetings, CALENDAR PEOPLE:

I am currently reading a fascinating book entitled, "The Calendar in Revolutionary France: Perceptions of Time in Literature, Culture, Politics" by Sanja Perovic. The book is at once a history of the FRC and a biography of Sylvain Marechal, who, although he did not invent the calendar as we currently know it, was the first to come up with a calendar that had 10-day "weeks", and replaced the Saints with all secular figures. In this sense it was like the Positivist Calendar. He started the year with March and ended it in February.

I am only in Ch. 3, but already I have learned a few key things. The French Revolution was led by men who truly thought they could create a new Society of Virtue on the ashes of the old society they had just destroyed. This society would have all the elements of a religion, but without a God. It would be a society that worshipped Lady Virtue, which busts would replace the Virgin Mary. A new calendar would create a rupture with time, and start a new time, incomparably greater and better than what had come before. I am about halfway through the book. I shall keep you updated, but already, I have some ideas.

Use of a 12x30 month scheme, with the five or six Blank Days, and a ten-day Decade. The five Blank Days would continue to honour Virtue, Opinion, Genius, Labour, and Rewards, with the sixth day being different for every country. The rest of the days would be named after men and women of great secular achievement, much like the Positivist Calendar. The months could either retain their current names or be simply named after their order, much like the ancient Roman months were, starting with Quintilis, and ending with December (when there were only ten months). They could be named after their number in Latin, which has always been the language of internationalism, much more-so than Esperanto ever has been or ever will be. Even today, scientific names are in Latin. The Roman Catholics, until recently worshipped in Latin, and that practice is gaining in popularity again.

The year could start from 1 at the time of the adoption of the calendar, and would be called the New Era, either in the language of the country, or even better yet, in Latin, (Era Novum), E.N. by abbreviation. All years prior to year One would be -1, etc, Old Era (Era Vetus), E.V. by abbreviation.

Why do I insist on on a 12x30, with a 10-day decade, in spite of the whiners (including the Chief Whiner [you know who you are]) who say its too inconvenient? The goal is "Breaking with Old Ideas" (which is actually the name of a film from the People's Republic of China, I believe about 1975). No religion should be catered to. Not Christianity, not Islam, not Judaism, Hinduism, none of them.

The State would propagate a Cult of the Supreme Being. It would be patterned after the same Cult that was propagated in France. A Deistic God, for a State that won't dictate a Confession, but in the absence of one, will dictate Faith. Atheism absolutely would be forbidden. Temples to the Supreme Being would be built in the pattern of those from Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece, though in other parts of the world, ancient temple patterns from a country's history could be utilised. The default would be the Roman and Greek models. Services to the Supreme Being would be created to rival the beauty of any church or temple today. The clergy for this religion would be salaried State officials. The Cult would dictate basic codes of morality, and would inculcate a respect for the Institutions of the State.

Of course, I am going to get a chorus of protests about this, and that is perfectly fine. I shall try to answer each one in turn. The Chief Whiner (you DO know who you are) is welcome to protest, but I may or may not deign to respond to you. This whole concept is so far above your mental capacity to comprehend, Chief Whiner, that your complaints are rather like the bleeting of a sheep.

But everyone ELSE is WELCOME to respond to anything I have said here. I realise that this is very revolutionary, and many people would disagree with me here. And that is perfectly fine. If there weren't disagreement, society would not be healthy.

Regards,
Jamison

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder


--
Amos Shapir
 
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
MICHAEL D:

I would also add that the FRC was created by scientists ,poets, farmers, a few political figures, and so-forth. The FRC definitely had scientific input when it was created.

Michael H Deckers <[hidden email]> wrote:

>On 2019-04-23 08:18, Amos Shapir wrote:
>> The French Revolutionary "new order" seems to have just copied the entire
>> structure of the Catholic church -- complete with an authoritarian regime,
>> hierarchies, saints an all -- just renamed everything and let the State run
>> it.  State official would of course be absolutely virtuous and never abuse
>> their power for their own personal interests...
>>
>> As I said before, there is no sure way to make a calendar reform
>> successful, but there is a sure way to make it fail: Trying to change
>> *everything* about people's lives.  The FRC is no exception.
>>
>
>
>    Yes. It is quite instructive to compare the
>    early histories of the French Republican
>    calendar and of the metric system. Both
>    were proposed to be rational and decimal.
>
>    The metric system mended a defect
>    in the (continental) measurement systems at
>    the time: the prototype units were grossly
>    different and even the multiples and
>    subdivisions were not the same everywhere.
>
>    The French Republican Calendar, however,
>    did not correct any error or inconvenience
>    of the Gregorian calendar; it was proposed
>    at least partly because it was seen as a
>    tool against the Church. On the contrary,
>    its introduction led to new inconveniences
>    that necessitated revisions (eg, the week was
>    reintroduced in 1802).
>
>    This was clearly expressed in 1805 by Laplace
>    who reported the advice of the commission charged
>    by Bonaparte to consider the abolishment of the
>    French Republican Calendar:
>       "Among all the possible calendars, neither [of the
>        French Republican and the Gregorian] is the
>        most natural or the most simple."
>
>    On the other hand, the metric system was meant as
>    an international system from the very beginning,
>    and carefully worked out by scientests.
>
>    Michael Deckers.
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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Sepp Rothwangl
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
dear list.
Please unsubscribe me from this list.
Too much spam from trolls.

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.565
SEAC Fellow
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com


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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
SEPP:

You should stay. The Chief Whiner and I are through with our issues. There will be no more spam.

Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
dear list.
Please unsubscribe me from this list.
Too much spam from trolls.

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.565
SEAC Fellow
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com


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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

sparkielee
Jamison, does that mean Michael left the group or did the issues get resolved?

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:04 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
SEPP:

You should stay. The Chief Whiner and I are through with our issues. There will be no more spam.

Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
dear list.
Please unsubscribe me from this list.
Too much spam from trolls.

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.565
SEAC Fellow
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com


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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Oh, no, PAULA, he did not leave. If only! But I don't think he'll say much to me at this point. And I certainly have nothing to say to him. I shall defend myself in future, but I won't START conflict with him any more.

Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades

Paula Spart <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison, does that mean Michael left the group or did the issues get resolved?

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:04 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
SEPP:

You should stay. The Chief Whiner and I are through with our issues. There will be no more spam.

Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
dear list.
Please unsubscribe me from this list.
Too much spam from trolls.

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.565
SEAC Fellow
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com


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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

sparkielee
That's the way to handle it. There is good and bad in everyone.
I'm finding your FRC quite interesting and he seems to like the calendar I'm designing which may be a "carbon copy" of Comte's calendar. I don't want you, him, or the person who was going to leave because of the conflicts to go. 
And as I told you before, as a Facebook admin, I would not tolerate everything in the groups I run. I would probably step in and intervene if you two were doing this in one of my Facebook groups. But I was hoping this would be resolved so we can enjoy your participation and his in the group.

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:33 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oh, no, PAULA, he did not leave. If only! But I don't think he'll say much to me at this point. And I certainly have nothing to say to him. I shall defend myself in future, but I won't START conflict with him any more.

Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades

Paula Spart <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison, does that mean Michael left the group or did the issues get resolved?

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:04 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
SEPP:

You should stay. The Chief Whiner and I are through with our issues. There will be no more spam.

Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
dear list.
Please unsubscribe me from this list.
Too much spam from trolls.

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.565
SEAC Fellow
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com


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Brij-Gregorian Modified Calendar. Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Jamison, Sepp, Michael Cc sirs:
> On the other hand, the metric system was meant as
   an international system from the very beginning,
   and carefully worked out by scientests.
IMO THIS HAD THE LACUNA OF EVADING ARC-ANGLE which later caused failure & ‘shunning’ continuation of Revolutionary French Republican Calendar.
Taking this as my queue, my efforts have been to cater to all these ‘impediments’ and directed my energy towards A World Calendar for All Ages and the Metric Calendar Year (including all criteria of FRC. 
image1.jpeg
Moreso, to cater to futuristic needs like bridging ‘metric norms and Decimalisation’ coining the term METRICOLOGY, to mean the science of “Metrology merged onto Decimalisation” since 1971 as I projected & discussed.
Can there be a ‘Systeme of Unites (SI or otherwise) to be called belonging to The Metric SI Units, without attempting to define them UNLESS linked to length unit - Metre -to belong to metric System? This is what I offer in defining The Nautical Kilometre (1973 April)! 
I am sure, experts have taken a note of this fact, in making United States the Leader to complete adoption of ‘Metric Norms’ the World Over. My view points & discussions have remained with USMA & Calndr-L archieves, as also through Media a  stranger in Wonder Land?
True, the format of my Calendar, keeps in tact the current distribution of month-day arrangements ‘except shifting July 31 to February 29th’ to benefit people born THIS date celebrating their birth event ‘every year’, along with improved Astronomers’ Average Mean Year=(365+31/128) days=365.2421875 days; along with current duration of Mean Moon, as demonstrated:
image2.jpeg
Experts may like to consider my inputs for comparison, with format of any other proposed/examined calendar, by ‘World Calendar Organisation/Bodies’ sirs!
Regards,
Flt Lt Brij Bhushan VIJ (Retd.), IAF ✈️
Tuesday, 2019 April 23H05:08 (decimal)

Sent from my iPhone
Hi 
On Apr 23, 2019, at 04:04, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

SEPP:

You should stay. The Chief Whiner and I are through with our issues. There will be no more spam.

Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
dear list.
Please unsubscribe me from this list.
Too much spam from trolls.

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.565
SEAC Fellow
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com


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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
PAULA:

I certainly agree with you regarding the issues I am having with Michael O. From what I am given to understand, he has caused two people, one about 1.5 years ago, and one in the last few weeks, to leave the group. That will NOT happen with me. But I shan't seek out problems with him, if I can help it.

Regarding your calendar, if you are using a 13x28 and 1/2 Blank Days scheme, it will indeed have close resemblance to the Positivist Calendar. Mine, being the 12x30 and 5/6 Blank Days, but taking the names of the Honoured Men and Women of the Positivist Calendar, will look like the FRC, but with considerable influence from the Positivist Calendar. The ordinal names in Latin of the months will bear a superficial resemblance to the ancient, pre-Julian Roman Calendar, where the months from 5-10, were given ordinal numbers. The choice of starting with Year One of the Era Novum is strictly my idea, and shows no resemblance to anything.

I am pleased that you are interested in the FRC. What do you think of my proposal for a calendar?

Regards,
Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1Caesar 231, Miltiades

Paula Spart <[hidden email]> wrote:
That's the way to handle it. There is good and bad in everyone.
I'm finding your FRC quite interesting and he seems to like the calendar I'm designing which may be a "carbon copy" of Comte's calendar. I don't want you, him, or the person who was going to leave because of the conflicts to go. 
And as I told you before, as a Facebook admin, I would not tolerate everything in the groups I run. I would probably step in and intervene if you two were doing this in one of my Facebook groups. But I was hoping this would be resolved so we can enjoy your participation and his in the group.

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:33 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oh, no, PAULA, he did not leave. If only! But I don't think he'll say much to me at this point. And I certainly have nothing to say to him. I shall defend myself in future, but I won't START conflict with him any more.

Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades

Paula Spart <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison, does that mean Michael left the group or did the issues get resolved?

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:04 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
SEPP:

You should stay. The Chief Whiner and I are through with our issues. There will be no more spam.

Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
dear list.
Please unsubscribe me from this list.
Too much spam from trolls.

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.565
SEAC Fellow
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com


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Re: The origin of the FRC, and a modern FRC today.

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter

Dear Paula et al

As someone who has been on this list a very long time, I can provide some perspective

Usually things are pretty sedate and polite among us, but every so often someone joins the list with a particular obsession that they feel needs to be expressed at great length. Given that the list is unmoderated, and given that most of us prefer it that way, we give them plenty of space

I recall some years ago, a poster named Sonny had a particular obsession about calendars with blank days arranged in certain ways He posted endless examples of how he thought this could be done, but most people on the list either ignored him, didn't understand his proposals, or just disagreed with him He seems to have left, but his ideas are still on the Calendar Wikia, if anyone is interested

Some years before Sonny, there was another poster, whose name I don't recall, who was obsessed about historical chronology This person posted endless articles about how traditional chronology and regal geneologies were all wrong, and that many years of the Middle Ages didn't exist because the chronologies were all fake. I haven't seen any posts on this issue in quite a while

Anyway we are just in an exceptionally blessed period right now where we have more than one obsessive poster at the same time providing us with overwhelming information A few amongst us have been unable to handle the overload and have moved on But, don't worry, it will pass

Walter Ziobro




On Tuesday, April 23, 2019 Paula Spart <[hidden email]> wrote:

That's the way to handle it. There is good and bad in everyone.
I'm finding your FRC quite interesting and he seems to like the calendar I'm designing which may be a "carbon copy" of Comte's calendar. I don't want you, him, or the person who was going to leave because of the conflicts to go. 
And as I told you before, as a Facebook admin, I would not tolerate everything in the groups I run. I would probably step in and intervene if you two were doing this in one of my Facebook groups. But I was hoping this would be resolved so we can enjoy your participation and his in the group.

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:33 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Oh, no, PAULA, he did not leave. If only! But I don't think he'll say much to me at this point. And I certainly have nothing to say to him. I shall defend myself in future, but I won't START conflict with him any more.

Jamison

4 Floreal CCXXVII, Hawthorn
1 Caesar 231, Miltiades

Paula Spart <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison, does that mean Michael left the group or did the issues get resolved?

Paula

3 Floreal CCXXVII, Fern
28 Archimedes 231, Pliny the Elder

On Tue, Apr 23, 2019 at 7:04 AM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
SEPP:

You should stay. The Chief Whiner and I are through with our issues. There will be no more spam.

Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
dear list.
Please unsubscribe me from this list.
Too much spam from trolls.