The French Republican Calendar

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The French Republican Calendar

Jamison Painter
To: Caledar People.

From: Jamison E. Painter, MA

Ladies and Gentlemen:
I think you will find, that after all due review of the various calendars that I have seen put forth on this site, the best yet devised is in fact the French Republican Calendar. 12 months of 30 days each, with five Complementary Days, and a sixth during Leap Year, to be determined by when the Autumn Equinox is seen from the Observatory of Paris, is an ideal system. And you will also note that the days of each month are designated after an animal, a plant, a rock or mineral, or a farm tool. And the plants are such that when their turn comes up on the calendar, in real life that plant is likely to be in season in the Ile de France region of France.

In addition, this calendar should be retained and in use to mark the French Era, since the founding of the French Republic is one of the most important events ever to have occurred in world history. Even though the agricultural aspects of the calendar lose all but symbolic meaning outside the Ile de France (although I HAVE noted that, to a limited degree, they DO hold true here in Iowa), they should still be held to on the calendar to remind us of the importance of farm life, and the fact that it is the basis of all other life in civilisation.

So there you have it: My pitch for the French Republican Calendar. In addition to being a superb way to measure time, the integral elements of it are also worth keeping in honour of one of the most important events ever to occur in world history: The founding of the French Republic.


--
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."

Mahatma Gandhi

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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Amos Shapir-2
Besides being (as you noted) rather Franco-centric, the main problem with the FRC is that it did away with the 7-day week.  This had put it in a direct collision course with organized religion, which caused its eventual demise.

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:51 PM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
To: Caledar People.

From: Jamison E. Painter, MA

Ladies and Gentlemen:
I think you will find, that after all due review of the various calendars that I have seen put forth on this site, the best yet devised is in fact the French Republican Calendar. 12 months of 30 days each, with five Complementary Days, and a sixth during Leap Year, to be determined by when the Autumn Equinox is seen from the Observatory of Paris, is an ideal system. And you will also note that the days of each month are designated after an animal, a plant, a rock or mineral, or a farm tool. And the plants are such that when their turn comes up on the calendar, in real life that plant is likely to be in season in the Ile de France region of France.

In addition, this calendar should be retained and in use to mark the French Era, since the founding of the French Republic is one of the most important events ever to have occurred in world history. Even though the agricultural aspects of the calendar lose all but symbolic meaning outside the Ile de France (although I HAVE noted that, to a limited degree, they DO hold true here in Iowa), they should still be held to on the calendar to remind us of the importance of farm life, and the fact that it is the basis of all other life in civilisation.

So there you have it: My pitch for the French Republican Calendar. In addition to being a superb way to measure time, the integral elements of it are also worth keeping in honour of one of the most important events ever to occur in world history: The founding of the French Republic.


--
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."

Mahatma Gandhi



--
Amos Shapir
 
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Peter Meyer
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
As Amos noted:

> the main problem with
> the FRC is that it did away with the 7-day week.  This had put it in a
> direct collision course with organized religion, which caused its eventual
> demise.

There were also other reasons, such as the difficulty of knowing when
the autumnal equinox occurred, in order to begin a new year.

The FRC has a week of ten days, a property which it shares with the
Archetypes Calendar -- well, almost, since in that calendar the first
two weeks ('tweeks') of a month always have 10 days but the third week
('tweek') can have either 9 or 10 days.  See
https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/arch_cal/arch_cal.htm

Since the Archetypes Calendar more-or-less accords with the Chinese
Calendar, new years day in the AC varies between January 21 and
February 21, and the closest seasonal point is Imbolc
(for which see https://www.hermetic.ch/eqsol/eqsol.htm ).

Regards,
Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
I do recognise that the French Republican Calendar had Ten-days (in French, Decades), rather than weeks. This is part of the beauty of it. The calendar should NOT be beholden to any religious tradition.

As for the sighting of the Equinox, that was sometimes difficult in 1793. But we now have technology that can tell you when the Equinox will occur at Paris for centuries. And there are other ways of determining Leap Years. One is to simply follow the Gregorian Rule. If the French Era year is divisible by 4, and not a century year, it is a Leap Year. For century years, it must also be divisible by 400. Another, slightly more accurate way to do it is to use a system whereby all years divisible by 4 are Leap, unless ALSO divisible by 128.

But lets be honest. If we still use the manual method of determining Leap Years, wherein the Equinox must be sighted physically, by someone's eyes, at the Observatory in Paris, we are (A), remaining true to the most accurate way of doing it, and (B), guaranteeing work to at least one Astronomer. In fact, one reliable individual could be chosen to do this and paid a stipend in exchange, along with a title. Perhaps the title might become quite coveted, and rewarded to an Astronomer who has accomplished more than his colleagues. To have a position which allows YOU to dictate how the rest of the world calculates time would, I think, inspire greater achievements in the field of Astronomy.

But I have much grander ideas than just the Calendar. I ALSO believe that Robespierre's Cult of the Supreme Being should be brought back, in combination with Auguste Compte's Religion of Humanity. I would NOT, however, use his Positivist Calendar, as it is less logical than the Republican Calendar, although adding certain celebrations of his, like the Commemoration of Holy Women alongside the Festival of the Revolution on Leap Years, and perhaps some of the significant people he honoured in addition to the plant, animal, mineral, and farm implements, would not be a bad idea at all. In fact, you could celebrate ALL of his days in combination with the Republican Calendar if you wanted to. I see no reason why you couldn't have the 9th of Prairial, Wild Thyme, associated with the human being who is commemorated on the equivalent date on the Positivist Calendar.

This could all be done IN ADDITION TO, alongside, if you will, one's own religious tradition. I am a Confessional Lutheran, and a conservative one at that, but I see nothing contradictory about having a Civil Religion and Calendar alongside my own religious beliefs. And such a plan would go a fair distance toward bridging the divide that exists between religious believers. It is hard to hate the Muslims when there is a day on your Calendar commemorating Muhammad. And when one is celebrating the Festival of the Supreme Being, it is hard to hate the Hindu doing it right next to you.

Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:
Besides being (as you noted) rather Franco-centric, the main problem with the FRC is that it did away with the 7-day week.  This had put it in a direct collision course with organized religion, which caused its eventual demise.

On Wed, Mar 27, 2019 at 8:51 PM Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
To: Caledar People.

From: Jamison E. Painter, MA

Ladies and Gentlemen:
I think you will find, that after all due review of the various calendars that I have seen put forth on this site, the best yet devised is in fact the French Republican Calendar. 12 months of 30 days each, with five Complementary Days, and a sixth during Leap Year, to be determined by when the Autumn Equinox is seen from the Observatory of Paris, is an ideal system. And you will also note that the days of each month are designated after an animal, a plant, a rock or mineral, or a farm tool. And the plants are such that when their turn comes up on the calendar, in real life that plant is likely to be in season in the Ile de France region of France.

In addition, this calendar should be retained and in use to mark the French Era, since the founding of the French Republic is one of the most important events ever to have occurred in world history. Even though the agricultural aspects of the calendar lose all but symbolic meaning outside the Ile de France (although I HAVE noted that, to a limited degree, they DO hold true here in Iowa), they should still be held to on the calendar to remind us of the importance of farm life, and the fact that it is the basis of all other life in civilisation.

So there you have it: My pitch for the French Republican Calendar. In addition to being a superb way to measure time, the integral elements of it are also worth keeping in honour of one of the most important events ever to occur in world history: The founding of the French Republic.


--
"You must be the change you want to see in the world."

Mahatma Gandhi



--
Amos Shapir
 
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Peter Meyer
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Jamison Painter said:

> This could all be done IN ADDITION TO, alongside, if you will, one's
> own religious tradition.

If one has one.

> I see nothing contradictory about having a Civil Religion

The idea of a "Civil Religion" is now rather quaint. As I recall, the
"American Civil Religion" is (was) that set of values that all citizens
of the U.S.A. (regardless of their professed religion) believed (or
honored) in common.  I think it expired a few decades ago.

> and [Civil] Calendar alongside my own religious beliefs [and
> calendar]. And such a plan would go a fair distance toward bridging
> the divide that exists between religious believers.

Believers in religions distance themselves from believers in other
religions because they choose to do so, regardless of their calendrical
preference, and because they believe that their religion is superior to
all others.  The introduction or revival of a calendar would do nothing
to change this.

> It is hard to hate the Muslims when there is a day on your Calendar
> commemorating Muhammad.

People who hate Muslims would be very unlikely to adopt a calendar
honoring Muhammad.

Regards,
Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Well, it would be rather hard NOT to adopt a calendar, if your nation does as a whole. If the USA adopted the French Republican Calendar, and used the list of Positivist "Saints" (and I admit that using the list of Positivist "Saints" alongside the French Republican Calendar would take some adaptation of both calendars and might not be practical), a hater of Muslims would be forced to use whatever calendar the Secular Authorities put in place. And, assuming such a person is Christian, he would be obligated by his own religious tradition to obey the State, as Paul orders him to do, and as Jesus suggests, in giving unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's.

In ANY calendar reform, no matter how conservative (a common date for Easter), or how radical (something like I am proposing), the coercive power of the State will HAVE to be used. And imposing the Cult of the Supreme Being, with or without Positivism as a part of it, will ALSO require the coercive power of the State. Both will ALSO require the cooperation of world religions, which is not likely to happen, so we are relying ENTIRELY on the coercive power of the State.

People often have to do things they don't initially like. When I was a child, I did not like vegetables. But my mother made me eat them anyway. People may not initially like the French Republican Calendar, and the list of Positivist "Saints" (if they are used). They may not like the Cult of the Supreme Being, and the Religion of Humanity (if such is used alongside the Cult of the Supreme Being). Nevertheless, as they are initially forced to use it, they will gradually become accustomed to it, and will come to appreciate it, just as a young man learns to like his veggies.

Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Jamison Painter said:
>
>> This could all be done IN ADDITION TO, alongside, if you will, one's
>> own religious tradition.
>
>If one has one.
>
>> I see nothing contradictory about having a Civil Religion
>
>The idea of a "Civil Religion" is now rather quaint. As I recall, the
>"American Civil Religion" is (was) that set of values that all citizens
>of the U.S.A. (regardless of their professed religion) believed (or
>honored) in common.  I think it expired a few decades ago.
>
>> and [Civil] Calendar alongside my own religious beliefs [and
>> calendar]. And such a plan would go a fair distance toward bridging
>> the divide that exists between religious believers.
>
>Believers in religions distance themselves from believers in other
>religions because they choose to do so, regardless of their calendrical
>preference, and because they believe that their religion is superior to
>all others.  The introduction or revival of a calendar would do nothing
>to change this.
>
>> It is hard to hate the Muslims when there is a day on your Calendar
>> commemorating Muhammad.
>
>People who hate Muslims would be very unlikely to adopt a calendar
>honoring Muhammad.
>
>Regards,
>Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Peter Meyer
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Jamison Painter said:

> In ANY calendar reform, no matter how conservative (a common date for
> Easter), or how radical (something like I am proposing), the coercive
> power of the State will HAVE to be used.

Are you advocating use of "the coercive power of the State" to
implement your proposed calendar reform?

And, in general, do you have no problem with the use of "the coercive
power of the State"?

And do you advocate tyranny as the most desirable form of government?

If so I think both the signers of the American Declaration of
Independence in 1770 and the French Republicans in 1792 would have
disagreed.

Regards,
Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
The French Republicans got quite used to the coercive power of the State being used, as Robespierre can so eloquently attest, I am sure. Now mind you, I am NOT suggesting we readopt widespread use of the guillotine as a means of punishment, though I would have no objection to its use in cases of Capital Punishment. Its just that I would not make EVERYTHING punishable by death, as the French Republicans were so wont to do.

But to answer the question, I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used when necessary, any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does. And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round, which is being considered right now by the Trump Administration.

Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Jamison Painter said:
>
>> In ANY calendar reform, no matter how conservative (a common date for
>> Easter), or how radical (something like I am proposing), the coercive
>> power of the State will HAVE to be used.
>
>Are you advocating use of "the coercive power of the State" to
>implement your proposed calendar reform?
>
>And, in general, do you have no problem with the use of "the coercive
>power of the State"?
>
>And do you advocate tyranny as the most desirable form of government?
>
>If so I think both the signers of the American Declaration of
>Independence in 1770 and the French Republicans in 1792 would have
>disagreed.
>
>Regards,
>Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter

Dear Calendar people

No need for coercion Just acceptance of allowing people alternatives In the US now both the traditional and metric systems of measurement are legal for use It seems to bother some people that we don't compel people to all use one or the other Not me That's why I have designed several calendars that can be used concurrently

Walter Ziobro




On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:

Jamison Painter said:

> In ANY calendar reform, no matter how conservative (a common date for
> Easter), or how radical (something like I am proposing), the coercive
> power of the State will HAVE to be used.

Are you advocating use of "the coercive power of the State" to
implement your proposed calendar reform?

And, in general, do you have no problem with the use of "the coercive
power of the State"?

And do you advocate tyranny as the most desirable form of government?

If so I think both the signers of the American Declaration of
Independence in 1770 and the French Republicans in 1792 would have
disagreed.

Regards,
Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Peter Meyer
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Michael Ossipoff


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Michael Ossipoff
I tried to post this, but it posted as a forwarding, with the blue text and the margin-line. So let me try again to post it normally;

Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter

Dear Calendar List

If minimalism is what we are looking for, we can't get much more minimalist than the ISO week numbering system Maybe it will become the de facto universal calendar, and all other particular calendars derived from it

Walter Ziobro




On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
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Re: The French Republican Calendar

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter

Dear Calendar List

Actually having give the matter some more thought, it occurred to me that the Julian Date system is even more minimal Perhaps a Julian Julian Calendar can be a universal system It would have Julian years of 365 consecutive numbered dates, except for the leap year which would invariably be once every four years The epoch would be Julian Day 1, and the Julian Era years numbered consecutively from that date

Walter Ziobro




On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
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|

Re: The French Republican Calendar

Michael Ossipoff
In reply to this post by Walter J Ziobro


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:14 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Calendar List

If minimalism is what we are looking for, we can't get much more minimalist than the ISO week numbering system


Yes, WeekDate is the minimal year-division system.

But, though ISO WeekDate is as minimal as South-Solstice WeekDate, ISO WeekDate is arbitrary. It uses Roman-Gregorian's arbitrary year-start time (in terms of Solar ecliptic-longitude).

Why should we have to continue starting the year at the arbitrary time-of-year chosen by Julius Caesar?

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and him keep it, and use an un-arbitrary year-start.

As I said, an astronomical cardinal-point of the Ecliptic is the (at least most) arbitrary year-start time. I told why a solstice is better than an equinox for that purpose, and why the South-Solstice is the best choice.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1620 UTC
 

Maybe it will become the de facto universal calendar, and all other particular calendars derived from it

Walter Ziobro


On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
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|

Re: The French Republican Calendar

Michael Ossipoff

Two Typos:

Let me fix two typos in my most recent post: The following is what I meant to say:

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and let him keep it, and use an un-arbitrary year-start.

As I said, an astronomical cardinal-point of the Ecliptic is the (at least most) un-arbitrary year-start time. I told why a solstice is better than an equinox for that purpose, and why the South-Solstice is the best choice.

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:21 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:14 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Calendar List

If minimalism is what we are looking for, we can't get much more minimalist than the ISO week numbering system


Yes, WeekDate is the minimal year-division system.

But, though ISO WeekDate is as minimal as South-Solstice WeekDate, ISO WeekDate is arbitrary. It uses Roman-Gregorian's arbitrary year-start time (in terms of Solar ecliptic-longitude).

Why should we have to continue starting the year at the arbitrary time-of-year chosen by Julius Caesar?

Render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's, and him keep it, and use an un-arbitrary year-start.

As I said, an astronomical cardinal-point of the Ecliptic is the (at least most) arbitrary year-start time. I told why a solstice is better than an equinox for that purpose, and why the South-Solstice is the best choice.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1620 UTC
 

Maybe it will become the de facto universal calendar, and all other particular calendars derived from it

Walter Ziobro


On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
Reply | Threaded
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|

Re: The French Republican Calendar

Michael Ossipoff
In reply to this post by Walter J Ziobro


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:27 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Calendar List

Actually having give the matter some more thought, it occurred to me that the Julian Date system is even more minimal Perhaps a Julian Julian Calendar can be a universal system It would have Julian years of 365 consecutive numbered dates, except for the leap year which would invariably be once every four years

As you of course know, such a calendar would suffer from extreme seasonal-drift.
 

The epoch would be Julian Day 1, and the Julian Era years numbered consecutively from that date.


No, changing to a year-numbering that doesn't match that of any religion would amount to an unnecessary religious imposition. Maybe the world's other largest religions don't recognize Christianity's Anno Domini numbering system, but at least it's the year-numbering of one of the world's largest religions, and has the advantage of being the reasonably-accepted status-quo.

Changing the year-numbering to one that isn't that of one of the large religions would be an unnecessary and inappropriate religious imposition.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1635 UTC
 

Walter Ziobro


On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
Reply | Threaded
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|

Re: The French Republican Calendar

Michael Ossipoff
...and if you'r suggesting increasing minimalness by having the day as the only year-division, then I answer that that takes minimalness too far, because the week is crucial to our societal activity-scheduling.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1643 UTC

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:35 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:27 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Calendar List

Actually having give the matter some more thought, it occurred to me that the Julian Date system is even more minimal Perhaps a Julian Julian Calendar can be a universal system It would have Julian years of 365 consecutive numbered dates, except for the leap year which would invariably be once every four years

As you of course know, such a calendar would suffer from extreme seasonal-drift.
 

The epoch would be Julian Day 1, and the Julian Era years numbered consecutively from that date.


No, changing to a year-numbering that doesn't match that of any religion would amount to an unnecessary religious imposition. Maybe the world's other largest religions don't recognize Christianity's Anno Domini numbering system, but at least it's the year-numbering of one of the world's largest religions, and has the advantage of being the reasonably-accepted status-quo.

Changing the year-numbering to one that isn't that of one of the large religions would be an unnecessary and inappropriate religious imposition.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1635 UTC
 

Walter Ziobro


On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
Reply | Threaded
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|

Re: The French Republican Calendar

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter

Dear Michael et al

If that is too minimalist, if you would like a good minimalist seasonal calendar, I would suggest an adaptation of the Indian National Civil Calendar with generic month names In fact I have thought of such names The months from the northward equinox to the southward equinox could be called the Boreal months because the sun is north of the celestial equator and called Boreal 1 thru Boreal 6, and the months from the souhtward equinox to the northward could be called the Austral months and called Austral 1 thru Austral 6. The long 31 day month s could be shifted in the same direction as the aphelion every 1700 years to maintain the relative seasonal lengths A 128 leap year rule should keep it accurate for a long time

WalterZiobro




On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

...and if you'r suggesting increasing minimalness by having the day as the only year-division, then I answer that that takes minimalness too far, because the week is crucial to our societal activity-scheduling.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1643 UTC

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:35 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:27 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Calendar List

Actually having give the matter some more thought, it occurred to me that the Julian Date system is even more minimal Perhaps a Julian Julian Calendar can be a universal system It would have Julian years of 365 consecutive numbered dates, except for the leap year which would invariably be once every four years

As you of course know, such a calendar would suffer from extreme seasonal-drift.
 

The epoch would be Julian Day 1, and the Julian Era years numbered consecutively from that date.


No, changing to a year-numbering that doesn't match that of any religion would amount to an unnecessary religious imposition. Maybe the world's other largest religions don't recognize Christianity's Anno Domini numbering system, but at least it's the year-numbering of one of the world's largest religions, and has the advantage of being the reasonably-accepted status-quo.

Changing the year-numbering to one that isn't that of one of the large religions would be an unnecessary and inappropriate religious imposition.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1635 UTC
 

Walter Ziobro


On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: The French Republican Calendar

Michael Ossipoff
Sure, it has its appeal, but the use of months spoils minimal-ness. 

...and also spoil ease and convenience of use, as do all month-systems, to varying degrees.

But that month-system spoils ease and convenience to even a greater degree than some other proposed month-systems, roughly-similarly to how our Roman months spoil ease and convenience.

Even if we were going to keep months, I wouldn't trade the relative ease and convenience of 13X28 for the Zodiacal accuracy of Indian-Civil.

But I'd prefer not even keeping the lack of ease and convenience that goes with having months.

Besides, any time you have months, you have the arbitrariness of question of which month-system to adopt.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1713 UTC




On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 1:06 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Michael et al

If that is too minimalist, if you would like a good minimalist seasonal calendar, I would suggest an adaptation of the Indian National Civil Calendar with generic month names In fact I have thought of such names The months from the northward equinox to the southward equinox could be called the Boreal months because the sun is north of the celestial equator and called Boreal 1 thru Boreal 6, and the months from the souhtward equinox to the northward could be called the Austral months and called Austral 1 thru Austral 6. The long 31 day month s could be shifted in the same direction as the aphelion every 1700 years to maintain the relative seasonal lengths A 128 leap year rule should keep it accurate for a long time

WalterZiobro


On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
...and if you'r suggesting increasing minimalness by having the day as the only year-division, then I answer that that takes minimalness too far, because the week is crucial to our societal activity-scheduling.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1643 UTC

On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:35 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 12:27 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Calendar List

Actually having give the matter some more thought, it occurred to me that the Julian Date system is even more minimal Perhaps a Julian Julian Calendar can be a universal system It would have Julian years of 365 consecutive numbered dates, except for the leap year which would invariably be once every four years

As you of course know, such a calendar would suffer from extreme seasonal-drift.
 

The epoch would be Julian Day 1, and the Julian Era years numbered consecutively from that date.


No, changing to a year-numbering that doesn't match that of any religion would amount to an unnecessary religious imposition. Maybe the world's other largest religions don't recognize Christianity's Anno Domini numbering system, but at least it's the year-numbering of one of the world's largest religions, and has the advantage of being the reasonably-accepted status-quo.

Changing the year-numbering to one that isn't that of one of the large religions would be an unnecessary and inappropriate religious imposition.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1635 UTC
 

Walter Ziobro


On Thursday, March 28, 2019 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 11:25 AM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison:

We already have the coercive power of the state, and for some reason it doesn't seem to be imposing the French-Republican Calendar.

Understandably you'd prefer that the coercive power of the state be wielded by a state that agrees with your choice of calendar (and preference of the guillotine for executions, etc).  Regrettably we can't and won't all have the coercive state that wants things as we do.

As I've said, I like the nature-references of the FRC.  But, as you said, they're somewhat region-specific. Not entirely, of course--I've noticed some of the month-names being seasonally-appropriate for where I reside. But (for example)  the plant-names for the days often are the names of plants not found on this continent.

In the days when FRC was devised and used, "the world" meant Europe. Now it's different. The FRC's seasonal references just wouldn't work for people who reside south of the equator.

Achellis' World Calendar, and also the International Fixed Calendar were seriously considered, but were rejected because they violated the wishes of Sabbatarians. Whether or not you don't respect those people's religions is entirely your business. I don't like religious imposition. The 7-day week is the current state-of-affairs, and, as such, it's very important, religiously, to a lot of people. Imposing a civil calendar that violates it would be religious imposition on a large scale.

So, as an ethical matter, and even as a practical matter, abolishing the civil-calendar 7-day week is out of the question.
------------------------------------
A calendar-reform proposal should be a calendar that is minimal, and is maximally un-arbitrary.

Among calendars that have weeks, the minimal calendar would be one that doesn't divide the year other than by weeks and days.  ...in other words, a WeekDate calendar.

An (at least relatively) un-arbitrary WeekDate calendar would be one that bases its year-start on a cardinal point of the Ecliptic.  That is, a on a solstice or equinox.

Because the Vernal Equinox heralds Spring, and the Autumnal Equinox heralds decent into the discomfort of harsh winter cold, one is understandably more celebrated than the other.

But both solstices are celebrated. The Summer Solstice because it's the height of Summer. The Winter Solstice because it's the day when warmth and Sun start on their way back to us.

Right now our year-start is been, and has been for a long time, fairly near to the South-Solstice. Therefore, the natural minimum-change suggestion for relatively un-arbitrary year-start would be the South-Solstice.

For those reasons, then, the minimal calendar, and the maximally un-arbitrary calendar, would the the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar.

There have already been proposals for versions of that.  I suggest that year-start be based on the actual South-Solstice, or else (as would probably be more practical) on the approximated South-Solstice that I've suggested. (The arithmetical-approximation-based year-start that I suggest is the one whose principle, justification and motivation are the most transparent, obvious and natural.)

Today's date, in the South-Solstice WeekDate Calendar is:

14 Th

...the Thursday of the 14th week of the calendar-year that started with the Monday that started nearest to the South-Solstice.

(...or nearest to the approximated South-Solstice based on the assumption that a South-Solstice occurs exactly every 365.2422 days, starting from the actual South-Solstice of 2017.)
----------------------------------
Is South-Solstice WeekDate seasonal? Yes, but in a geographically non-preferential way.

For example, we're in the middle of week 14. That suggests that we're a little more than 13 weeks after the South-Solstice. Because there are about 52 weeks in a year, and because the year started on the Monday nearest the South-Solstice (in the sense described above), then the end of week 13 would roughly be a quarter-year after the South-Solstice, and so the middle of the 14th week could be expected to be a little after the Northward-Equinox. 

So the week-number gives a good, if rough, indication of the Solar ecliptic-longitude.

South-Solstice WeekDate is a seasonal calendar.

Michael Ossipoff

14 Th
1525 UT



On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 9:11 AM Peter Meyer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter said:

> I have no problem with the coercive power of the State being used
> when necessary ...

To be clear, "coercive power of the State" means that the government of
the time can order citizens to obey its commands or else be punished
(by means of fines, jail time or worse).

So would you like to see the current (or a future) U.S. federal govt.
legislate that everyone should accept and use the French Republican
Calendar or else be punished (at a minimum, fines or jail time)?

And who decides when "the coercive power of the State" is "necessary"?

> ... any more than anybody else of calm, rational mind does.

So are you saying that anyone who disagrees with the use of "the
coercive power of the State" to enforce acceptance and use of the
French Republican Calendar cannot be "of calm, rational mind" and thus
must be either mentally agitated (thus not thinking clearly) or
irrational?

> And imposition of a Calendar that makes much more rational sense than
> the one we currently use is no different, or more coercive, than
> declaring Daylight Saving Time to be used year-round

It is debatable whether the French Republican Calendar "makes much more
rational sense than the one we currently use", a matter which can
properly be discussed on this calendar forum, and a claim for which you
have provided very little evidence.  Your curiously evident preference
for it is not evidence of its superiority to the Gregorian Calendar,
despite the flaws of the GC (of which we are all aware).

Declaring DST to be used year-round (whether rational, beneficial and
advisable or not) would be a simple modification of something already
in widespread use, not the imposition of something radically new and
probably widely unpopular, and thus certainly not "no different".

Regards,
Peter
1234 ... 9