Re: NewYear

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Re: NewYear

VictorEngel
Dear Charles and Calendar People,

It's not a problem with the calendar, it's a problem in referring to a date
in the calendar by someone living in a culture where another calendar is
pervasive. In this case, though, I think the Aztec calendar drifts wrt
Gregorian more than does the Ogam Wheel, depending upon which manipulation
rules you use for the OW, of course.

Victor

> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Charles Moyer
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:08 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: NewYear
>
>
> Ah, ha, so the Ogam Wheel is not the only calendar which has its
> difficulties matching to the Gregorian "frame of reverence"!
>
> > From: "Engel,Victor" <[hidden email]>
> > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > <[hidden email]>
> > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:33:21 -0600
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: NewYear
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Speaking of Huitzilopochtli, his wikipedia article refers
> to his month,
> > Panquetzaliztli, and paranthetically gives Gregorian date
> equivalents
> > (coming in a few days). Such an equivalence can't be valid
> except for
> > specific years, since the Aztec calendar does not run
> synchronously with the
> > Gregorian calendar. Or is there a modern version of the
> Aztec calendar that
> > parasitizes the Gregorian calendar?
> >
> > Victor
> >
> >> Perhaps if/when vernor vinges  "singularity"takes place , since an
> >> anthropomorfic god would become unnecessary. Otherwise we are
> >> doomed to
> >> listening to intelligent people (most believers)  speak of an
> >> irrational paradigm (religious narratives) as if it was
> proven fact.
> >> I sometime think though that there is one true god.
> Huitzilopocthli,
> >> the god of war, since iot seems the whole world is carzy about it.
>
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Re: NewYear

VictorEngel
Dear Marcos, Charles and Calendar People,


> My dear victor I don't think the Meshika calendar can parasitize the
> Gregorian calendar,

You realize, of course, I was suggesting that facetiously....

> There are two models for the meshika solar calendar, one is
> called the
> model calendar, and it keeps a close correlation with the
> Gregorian as
> it is a calendar made of 13 civil calendars, just like the Gregorian
> uses 14. So that in fact 1 crocodile is the first of the year 4 times
> in 52 years. This is the calendar followed by the tradition
> groups that
> keep calendar counts. This calendar has a leap day every four
> years and
> skips one every 128 years on average. So while it isn't entirely
> synchronous with the gregorian as the leap years fall in different
> years than the Gregorian it is very close to it.

Well, that is my whole point. The wikipedia article on Huitzilopochtli gives
specific dates for the month of Panquetzaliztli, a correlation that is true
only sometimes. I see the same sort of thing with references to the Chinese
calendar. I don't follow the Chinese calendar, but I think I recall mention
that the modern version tracks the Gregorian. Someone please correct me if
I'm wrong.
 
Victor
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Re: NewYear

Sepp Rothwangl
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Am 28.11.2005 um 15:43 schrieb villas:

> Sepp,
>
> Perhaps if/when vernor vinges  "singularity"takes place , since an
> anthropomorfic god would become unnecessary. Otherwise we are doomed
> to listening to intelligent people (most believers)  speak of an
> irrational paradigm (religious narratives) as if it was proven fact.
> I sometime think though that there is one true god. Huitzilopocthli,
> the god of war, since iot seems the whole world is carzy about it.
>

Marcos,
I think that moment would come, if people would realize that any God is
a creation of men and not vice versa.

Sepp
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Re: NewYear

Charles Moyer
> From: Sepp Rothwangl <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 09:26:44 +0100
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: NewYear
>
> Am 28.11.2005 um 15:43 schrieb villas:
>
>> Sepp,
>>
>> Perhaps if/when vernor vinges  "singularity"takes place , since an
>> anthropomorfic god would become unnecessary. Otherwise we are doomed
>> to listening to intelligent people (most believers)  speak of an
>> irrational paradigm (religious narratives) as if it was proven fact.
>> I sometime think though that there is one true god. Huitzilopocthli,
>> the god of war, since iot seems the whole world is carzy about it.
>>
>
> Marcos,
> I think that moment would come, if people would realize that any God is
> a creation of men and not vice versa.
>
> Sepp
    That must account for the not-so-intelligent design.
"God's only excuse is that he doesn't exist." -STENDAHL
How is it that the worst problems in the world today are precipitated by the
most fanatically believers, fundamentalists of all stripes except for maybe
the Amish? Can God be on all of their sides at one time? Is he a lawyer?

Charles
R5a- (The Ogam Wheel has trees and letters, sun and moon, and no gods)
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Re: NewYear

VictorEngel
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Dear Sepp and Calendar People,

> I think that moment would come, if people would realize that
> any God is
> a creation of men and not vice versa.

Unless his name is Math, in which case, men do not create him but discover
him.

Victor
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Bonavian New Year

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Dear Calendar People
 
This reminds me that the Bonavian Civil New Year is not far off.
I make it Sunday 18 December 2005 for Bonavian Year 6719.
See
for Bonavian New Years
and
for Bonavian Calendar rules (except epoch)
Perhaps, Rick could add an epoch rule to the article (year 1 starts on JDN 27).
 
Note that the following Bonavian year of 6720 is the final year of a 28-year cycle. The total number of days in the years 1 to 6720 inclusive is 7*(240*1461-7) = 2,454,431. The '-7' comes from the seven years 896, 1792, 2688, 3584, 4480, 5376, 6272 that have a leap week dropped to correct the 28-year cycle, which has a mean year of 365.25 days.
 
Karl
-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Hein
Sent: 27 November 2005 06:26
To: [hidden email]
Subject: NewYear

To all calendar people.

 

Today is the first day of a new Christian Year.

Let it be a year full of hope and peace.

 

H. van Winkel

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Frame of Reverence RE: NewYear

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Dear Charles and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Charles Moyer
Sent: 28 November 2005 18:08
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: NewYear


Ah, ha, so the Ogam Wheel is not the only calendar which has its
difficulties matching to the Gregorian "frame of reverence"!

KARL SAYS:
Most calendars don't even need to match the Gregorian "frame of reverence"!

This is because each one alone is a real calendar that can operate in a calendar vacuum without any "frame of reverence", beholden to no other calendar.

Karl

21-07(14(28  (all different multiples of 7)

PS: See http://emr.cs.uiuc.edu/home/reingold/calendar-book/index.shtml
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Ogam Wheel in Strange Culture RE: NewYear

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Dear Charles Victor and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Engel,Victor
Sent: 28 November 2005 20:53
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: NewYear


Dear Charles and Calendar People,

It's not a problem with the calendar, it's a problem in referring to a date
in the calendar by someone living in a culture where another calendar is
pervasive. In this case, though, I think the Aztec calendar drifts wrt
Gregorian more than does the Ogam Wheel, depending upon which manipulation
rules you use for the OW, of course.

KARL SAYS:
Perhaps Charles could imagine using an Ogam wheel in a culture where there is no Gregorian calendar, but a calendar where every 4th year is a leap year except every 128th year. The Ogam wheel would work just as well there, but the 19-year cycle would need correcting slightly more often.

Much more challenging to Charles would be imagining using the Ogam wheel in a culture where there is no solar calendar at all, but a only year that always has 365 days. Then one could NOT use the Ogam wheel with that 365-day year at all (an alternative 25-year wheel could be used), but would need to rely on observations of the solstices, equinoxes or moon phases.

Karl

07(14(28



Victor

> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Charles Moyer
> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:08 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: NewYear
>
>
> Ah, ha, so the Ogam Wheel is not the only calendar which has its
> difficulties matching to the Gregorian "frame of reverence"!
>
> > From: "Engel,Victor" <[hidden email]>
> > Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> > <[hidden email]>
> > Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:33:21 -0600
> > To: [hidden email]
> > Subject: Re: NewYear
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Speaking of Huitzilopochtli, his wikipedia article refers
> to his month,
> > Panquetzaliztli, and paranthetically gives Gregorian date
> equivalents
> > (coming in a few days). Such an equivalence can't be valid
> except for
> > specific years, since the Aztec calendar does not run
> synchronously with the
> > Gregorian calendar. Or is there a modern version of the
> Aztec calendar that
> > parasitizes the Gregorian calendar?
> >
> > Victor
> >
> >> Perhaps if/when vernor vinges  "singularity"takes place , since an
> >> anthropomorfic god would become unnecessary. Otherwise we are
> >> doomed to
> >> listening to intelligent people (most believers)  speak of an
> >> irrational paradigm (religious narratives) as if it was
> proven fact.
> >> I sometime think though that there is one true god.
> Huitzilopocthli,
> >> the god of war, since iot seems the whole world is carzy about it.
>
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Re: NewYear

villas
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
I'm glad to hear that. I also tend to facetiousnes.


I think that in an effort to simplify, whoever wrote the wikipedia
article is doing exactly that.  But also one of the problems is that
while most tradition groups use 10 days before the VE (in reality
before 21 march), other groups disagree and use the begining of
february, etc, etc.


Part of the effort to unify the calendar is precisley to come to a
determination of when exactly did the solar year (xihuitl) start in
those days. With the efforts of researchers recently, there seems to be
an internal correlatiion between the Mayan and the Meshika, (really the
Toltec) calendars.

I have started a anawak calendar list, somewhat modeled after this
list. I invite all and any of you interested in this project. Though
spanish is the language of choice, I believe that english can be used
as several of us speak english in the list.

There aren't many members yet, It seems academicians are shy about
joining, but we do have some members who are pretty capable of talking
about the calendar(s),


to join please go to www.anawak.com

cheers everyone.



Marcos
On Nov 28, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Engel,Victor wrote:

> Dear Marcos, Charles and Calendar People,
>
>
>> My dear victor I don't think the Meshika calendar can parasitize the
>> Gregorian calendar,
>
> You realize, of course, I was suggesting that facetiously....
>
>> There are two models for the meshika solar calendar, one is
>> called the
>> model calendar, and it keeps a close correlation with the
>> Gregorian as
>> it is a calendar made of 13 civil calendars, just like the Gregorian
>> uses 14. So that in fact 1 crocodile is the first of the year 4 times
>> in 52 years. This is the calendar followed by the tradition
>> groups that
>> keep calendar counts. This calendar has a leap day every four
>> years and
>> skips one every 128 years on average. So while it isn't entirely
>> synchronous with the gregorian as the leap years fall in different
>> years than the Gregorian it is very close to it.
>
> Well, that is my whole point. The wikipedia article on Huitzilopochtli
> gives
> specific dates for the month of Panquetzaliztli, a correlation that is
> true
> only sometimes. I see the same sort of thing with references to the
> Chinese
> calendar. I don't follow the Chinese calendar, but I think I recall
> mention
> that the modern version tracks the Gregorian. Someone please correct
> me if
> I'm wrong.
>
> Victor
>
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Re: NewYear

villas
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
I believe you are right.

I have yet tp approach the OW and study its working. I read all the
posts refering to it, but of course with no understanding of it.



I would like to devote time to studing the OW,

can someone post for me the different web sites that I can go to to
study it.


Marcos



On Nov 28, 2005, at 3:53 PM, Engel,Victor wrote:

> Dear Charles and Calendar People,
>
> It's not a problem with the calendar, it's a problem in referring to a
> date
> in the calendar by someone living in a culture where another calendar
> is
> pervasive. In this case, though, I think the Aztec calendar drifts wrt
> Gregorian more than does the Ogam Wheel, depending upon which
> manipulation
> rules you use for the OW, of course.
>
> Victor
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
>> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Charles Moyer
>> Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 12:08 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: NewYear
>>
>>
>> Ah, ha, so the Ogam Wheel is not the only calendar which has its
>> difficulties matching to the Gregorian "frame of reverence"!
>>
>>> From: "Engel,Victor" <[hidden email]>
>>> Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
>>> <[hidden email]>
>>> Date: Mon, 28 Nov 2005 09:33:21 -0600
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: NewYear
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> Speaking of Huitzilopochtli, his wikipedia article refers
>> to his month,
>>> Panquetzaliztli, and paranthetically gives Gregorian date
>> equivalents
>>> (coming in a few days). Such an equivalence can't be valid
>> except for
>>> specific years, since the Aztec calendar does not run
>> synchronously with the
>>> Gregorian calendar. Or is there a modern version of the
>> Aztec calendar that
>>> parasitizes the Gregorian calendar?
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>>> Perhaps if/when vernor vinges  "singularity"takes place , since an
>>>> anthropomorfic god would become unnecessary. Otherwise we are
>>>> doomed to
>>>> listening to intelligent people (most believers)  speak of an
>>>> irrational paradigm (religious narratives) as if it was
>> proven fact.
>>>> I sometime think though that there is one true god.
>> Huitzilopocthli,
>>>> the god of war, since iot seems the whole world is carzy about it.
>>
>
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Re: NewYear

villas
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Somewhere I read about a theory that states that there are no laws in
the universe, that they get created as we discover them. To me it
sounds a little too esoteric to believe.


I'm just reading a book called American Gods, a somewhat interesting
novel that pits the ancient gods against the new ones, meaning highway
god, internet god, TV god, etc, etc. I also remeber the concept of the
dying old gods from lack of believers in a book about beets in perfume
, it might of been Jitterbug perfume, but not sure, I read a loooong
time ago.


I'm a solipsist hence I am my own higher self. LOL

Marcos



On Nov 29, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Engel,Victor wrote:

> Dear Sepp and Calendar People,
>
>> I think that moment would come, if people would realize that
>> any God is
>> a creation of men and not vice versa.
>
> Unless his name is Math, in which case, men do not create him but
> discover
> him.
>
> Victor
>
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Re: NewYear

VictorEngel
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Is this anawak related to anahuac?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of villas
> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:25 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: NewYear
>
>
> I'm glad to hear that. I also tend to facetiousnes.
>
>
> I think that in an effort to simplify, whoever wrote the wikipedia
> article is doing exactly that.  But also one of the problems is that
> while most tradition groups use 10 days before the VE (in reality
> before 21 march), other groups disagree and use the begining of
> february, etc, etc.
>
>
> Part of the effort to unify the calendar is precisley to come to a
> determination of when exactly did the solar year (xihuitl) start in
> those days. With the efforts of researchers recently, there
> seems to be
> an internal correlatiion between the Mayan and the Meshika,
> (really the
> Toltec) calendars.
>
> I have started a anawak calendar list, somewhat modeled after this
> list. I invite all and any of you interested in this project. Though
> spanish is the language of choice, I believe that english can be used
> as several of us speak english in the list.
>
> There aren't many members yet, It seems academicians are shy about
> joining, but we do have some members who are pretty capable
> of talking
> about the calendar(s),
>
>
> to join please go to www.anawak.com
>
> cheers everyone.
>
>
>
> Marcos
> On Nov 28, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Engel,Victor wrote:
>
> > Dear Marcos, Charles and Calendar People,
> >
> >
> >> My dear victor I don't think the Meshika calendar can
> parasitize the
> >> Gregorian calendar,
> >
> > You realize, of course, I was suggesting that facetiously....
> >
> >> There are two models for the meshika solar calendar, one is
> >> called the
> >> model calendar, and it keeps a close correlation with the
> >> Gregorian as
> >> it is a calendar made of 13 civil calendars, just like the
> Gregorian
> >> uses 14. So that in fact 1 crocodile is the first of the
> year 4 times
> >> in 52 years. This is the calendar followed by the tradition
> >> groups that
> >> keep calendar counts. This calendar has a leap day every four
> >> years and
> >> skips one every 128 years on average. So while it isn't entirely
> >> synchronous with the gregorian as the leap years fall in different
> >> years than the Gregorian it is very close to it.
> >
> > Well, that is my whole point. The wikipedia article on
> Huitzilopochtli
> > gives
> > specific dates for the month of Panquetzaliztli, a
> correlation that is
> > true
> > only sometimes. I see the same sort of thing with references to the
> > Chinese
> > calendar. I don't follow the Chinese calendar, but I think I recall
> > mention
> > that the modern version tracks the Gregorian. Someone
> please correct
> > me if
> > I'm wrong.
> >
> > Victor
> >
>
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Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Dear Marcos and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of villas
Sent: 29 November 2005 16:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: NewYear


I believe you are right.

I have yet tp approach the OW and study its working. I read all the
posts refering to it, but of course with no understanding of it.



I would like to devote time to studing the OW,

can someone post for me the different web sites that I can go to to
study it.

A picture of the Ogam Wheel
http://www.the-light.com/cal/ogfront.gif

Charles original rules (in JPEG format) without any provision for leap years
http://www.the-light.com/cal/ogindex.html

My description of the Ogam wheel (and a hypothetical Martyrological wheel)
http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_ogmar.html

Table of moon-phase runes missed out by each 28-day month of the tree calendar
http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_ogam_miss.html

Tom Peter's suggestion about adding a leap day rule to the Ogam Wheel and correct the 19-year cycle
http://www.the-light.com/cal/OgamIntercalaryDays.txt
and my slight improvement of it
http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_OgamIntercalaryDays.html


Karl

07(14(28
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Re: Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear

villas
Thanks Karl.



On Nov 29, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:

> Dear Marcos and Calendar People
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of villas
> Sent: 29 November 2005 16:28
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: NewYear
>
>
> I believe you are right.
>
> I have yet tp approach the OW and study its working. I read all the
> posts refering to it, but of course with no understanding of it.
>
>
>
> I would like to devote time to studing the OW,
>
> can someone post for me the different web sites that I can go to to
> study it.
>
> A picture of the Ogam Wheel
> http://www.the-light.com/cal/ogfront.gif
>
> Charles original rules (in JPEG format) without any provision for leap
> years
> http://www.the-light.com/cal/ogindex.html
>
> My description of the Ogam wheel (and a hypothetical Martyrological
> wheel)
> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_ogmar.html
>
> Table of moon-phase runes missed out by each 28-day month of the tree
> calendar
> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_ogam_miss.html
>
> Tom Peter's suggestion about adding a leap day rule to the Ogam Wheel
> and correct the 19-year cycle
> http://www.the-light.com/cal/OgamIntercalaryDays.txt
> and my slight improvement of it
> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_OgamIntercalaryDays.html
>
>
> Karl
>
> 07(14(28
>
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Re: NewYear

Sepp Rothwangl
In reply to this post by villas
Am 29.11.2005 um 17:34 schrieb villas:

> Somewhere I read about a theory that states that there are no laws in
> the universe, that they get created as we discover them. To me it
> sounds a little too esoteric to believe.
>

If at last there exists any law in the universe, this law is randomness
...
But it looks as if randomness cannot be anywhere ...

sepp
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Re: Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear

Charles Moyer
In reply to this post by villas
Marcos,
    If you privately send me your mailing address I will be glad to send you
a working model of the Ogam Wheel with instructions. This makes it much
easier to use. Thus you may want to try experimenting with the wheel itself
before you delve too deeply into some of these contributions on the subject
listed below. I will also send you the Gregorian charts for the operation
from 1989 to 2007, a complete Metonic period in which it becomes evident
that Gregorian leap days only temporarily effect the OW's function.

Charles
R5a-

> From: villas <[hidden email]>
> Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
> <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:45:44 -0500
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear
>
> Thanks Karl.
>
>
>
> On Nov 29, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:
>
>> Dear Marcos and Calendar People
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
>> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of villas
>> Sent: 29 November 2005 16:28
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: NewYear
>>
>>
>> I believe you are right.
>>
>> I have yet tp approach the OW and study its working. I read all the
>> posts refering to it, but of course with no understanding of it.
>>
>>
>>
>> I would like to devote time to studing the OW,
>>
>> can someone post for me the different web sites that I can go to to
>> study it.
>>
>> A picture of the Ogam Wheel
>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/ogfront.gif
>>
>> Charles original rules (in JPEG format) without any provision for leap
>> years
>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/ogindex.html
>>
>> My description of the Ogam wheel (and a hypothetical Martyrological
>> wheel)
>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_ogmar.html
>>
>> Table of moon-phase runes missed out by each 28-day month of the tree
>> calendar
>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_ogam_miss.html
>>
>> Tom Peter's suggestion about adding a leap day rule to the Ogam Wheel
>> and correct the 19-year cycle
>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/OgamIntercalaryDays.txt
>> and my slight improvement of it
>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_OgamIntercalaryDays.html
>>
>>
>> Karl
>>
>> 07(14(28
>>
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Re: Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear

Marcos Villaseñor
Charles, Thank you as it seemed rather complicated, mainly because I
don't know anything about runes, ( i was getting into it ) even though
I do have celtic blood, it is chinese to me.


my email is [hidden email]


Best


Marcos


On Nov 29, 2005, at 8:27 PM, Charles Moyer wrote:

> Marcos,
>     If you privately send me your mailing address I will be glad to
> send you
> a working model of the Ogam Wheel with instructions. This makes it much
> easier to use. Thus you may want to try experimenting with the wheel
> itself
> before you delve too deeply into some of these contributions on the
> subject
> listed below. I will also send you the Gregorian charts for the
> operation
> from 1989 to 2007, a complete Metonic period in which it becomes
> evident
> that Gregorian leap days only temporarily effect the OW's function.
>
> Charles
> R5a-
>
>> From: villas <[hidden email]>
>> Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
>> <[hidden email]>
>> Date: Tue, 29 Nov 2005 11:45:44 -0500
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear
>>
>> Thanks Karl.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Nov 29, 2005, at 11:38 AM, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Marcos and Calendar People
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
>>> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of villas
>>> Sent: 29 November 2005 16:28
>>> To: [hidden email]
>>> Subject: Re: NewYear
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe you are right.
>>>
>>> I have yet tp approach the OW and study its working. I read all the
>>> posts refering to it, but of course with no understanding of it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I would like to devote time to studing the OW,
>>>
>>> can someone post for me the different web sites that I can go to to
>>> study it.
>>>
>>> A picture of the Ogam Wheel
>>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/ogfront.gif
>>>
>>> Charles original rules (in JPEG format) without any provision for
>>> leap
>>> years
>>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/ogindex.html
>>>
>>> My description of the Ogam wheel (and a hypothetical Martyrological
>>> wheel)
>>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_ogmar.html
>>>
>>> Table of moon-phase runes missed out by each 28-day month of the tree
>>> calendar
>>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_ogam_miss.html
>>>
>>> Tom Peter's suggestion about adding a leap day rule to the Ogam Wheel
>>> and correct the 19-year cycle
>>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/OgamIntercalaryDays.txt
>>> and my slight improvement of it
>>> http://www.the-light.com/cal/kp_OgamIntercalaryDays.html
>>>
>>>
>>> Karl
>>>
>>> 07(14(28
>>>
>
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Re: Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
In reply to this post by Palmen, KEV (Karl)
Dear Marcos and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of villas
Sent: 30 November 2005 02:46
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear


Charles, Thank you as it seemed rather complicated, mainly because I
don't know anything about runes, ( i was getting into it ) even though
I do have celtic blood, it is chinese to me.

KARL SAYS:
One does not need to know much about runes to operate and understand to Ogam wheel. There is a Rune for each of the 13 tree months and for each of the 30 phases of the moons. Charles documents explain these.

Karl

07(21(29
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Re: NewYear

Marcos Villaseñor
In reply to this post by VictorEngel
Yes,the traditional grammar used in nahuatl or nawatl, is the one
developed by 16th century spaniards to accomodate nawatl sounds. The
spelling that  I prefer and that is gaining popularity is called
phonetic nawatl, and it uses letters that aproximate the real sound of
nawatl. Nawatl sound closer to english than spanish, for instance
avocado is spelled in classic nawatl (16c spanish) ahuacatl but the
sound is much closer to awakatl, another example is the ancient capital
of the toltecs, in classic nawatl it is spelled Tollan, but the double
LL in spanish produces a Y sound, where the sound of the word is really
Tolan with a soft L.
Another example is Quetzalcoatl in the classic nawatl is Ketsalkoatl in
the phonetic nawatl. There is no Z sound in nawatl so it is substituted
for an S.

Thos convention was adopted at the Aztec Congress in 1940, in Milpa
Alta, Mexico, where most of the descendants of the Meshika live.
Meshika is another example, traditionally it had benn Mexica, but
Meshika is much closer to the correct pronunciation.

It is odd to use the phonetic convention at the begining. but once you
get used to it, it makes pronouncing nawatl a lot easier.







On Nov 29, 2005, at 11:36 AM, Engel,Victor wrote:

> Is this anawak related to anahuac?
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
>> [mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of villas
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 29, 2005 10:25 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: NewYear
>>
>>
>> I'm glad to hear that. I also tend to facetiousnes.
>>
>>
>> I think that in an effort to simplify, whoever wrote the wikipedia
>> article is doing exactly that.  But also one of the problems is that
>> while most tradition groups use 10 days before the VE (in reality
>> before 21 march), other groups disagree and use the begining of
>> february, etc, etc.
>>
>>
>> Part of the effort to unify the calendar is precisley to come to a
>> determination of when exactly did the solar year (xihuitl) start in
>> those days. With the efforts of researchers recently, there
>> seems to be
>> an internal correlatiion between the Mayan and the Meshika,
>> (really the
>> Toltec) calendars.
>>
>> I have started a anawak calendar list, somewhat modeled after this
>> list. I invite all and any of you interested in this project. Though
>> spanish is the language of choice, I believe that english can be used
>> as several of us speak english in the list.
>>
>> There aren't many members yet, It seems academicians are shy about
>> joining, but we do have some members who are pretty capable
>> of talking
>> about the calendar(s),
>>
>>
>> to join please go to www.anawak.com
>>
>> cheers everyone.
>>
>>
>>
>> Marcos
>> On Nov 28, 2005, at 4:03 PM, Engel,Victor wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Marcos, Charles and Calendar People,
>>>
>>>
>>>> My dear victor I don't think the Meshika calendar can
>> parasitize the
>>>> Gregorian calendar,
>>>
>>> You realize, of course, I was suggesting that facetiously....
>>>
>>>> There are two models for the meshika solar calendar, one is
>>>> called the
>>>> model calendar, and it keeps a close correlation with the
>>>> Gregorian as
>>>> it is a calendar made of 13 civil calendars, just like the
>> Gregorian
>>>> uses 14. So that in fact 1 crocodile is the first of the
>> year 4 times
>>>> in 52 years. This is the calendar followed by the tradition
>>>> groups that
>>>> keep calendar counts. This calendar has a leap day every four
>>>> years and
>>>> skips one every 128 years on average. So while it isn't entirely
>>>> synchronous with the gregorian as the leap years fall in different
>>>> years than the Gregorian it is very close to it.
>>>
>>> Well, that is my whole point. The wikipedia article on
>> Huitzilopochtli
>>> gives
>>> specific dates for the month of Panquetzaliztli, a
>> correlation that is
>>> true
>>> only sometimes. I see the same sort of thing with references to the
>>> Chinese
>>> calendar. I don't follow the Chinese calendar, but I think I recall
>>> mention
>>> that the modern version tracks the Gregorian. Someone
>> please correct
>>> me if
>>> I'm wrong.
>>>
>>> Victor
>>>
>>
>
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Re: Ogam Wheel Websites RE: NewYear

Marcos Villaseñor
In reply to this post by Palmen, KEV (Karl)
>

I know it is just that visually it is so odd and I do suffer from mild
ADD, which means I have to overcome my own brain when confronting
things that look foreign or complicated, even if they aren't.

thanks

marcos

>
> KARL SAYS:
> One does not need to know much about runes to operate and understand
> to Ogam wheel. There is a Rune for each of the 13 tree months and for
> each of the 30 phases of the moons. Charles documents explain these.
>
> Karl
>
> 07(21(29
>
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