Re: CALNDR-L Digest - 29 Jan 2020 to 30 Jan 2020 (#2020-21)

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Re: CALNDR-L Digest - 29 Jan 2020 to 30 Jan 2020 (#2020-21)

john
This email originated from outside ECU.


Hi folks, returning to the list after a long break I see Aquarius and Aries still in contention. Back then I raised the notion of integrating sidereal time with mean solar time. While we are about it, why not publish lunar time too as a special for fishermen and others? The most useful tool for integrating different time regimes is the set of Fibonacci numbers, which can be incorporated into any calendar.  Please visit www fibonaccitime.info.
Cheers, john regan.

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of CALNDR-L automatic digest system
Sent: Friday, 31 January 2020 3:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: CALNDR-L Digest - 29 Jan 2020 to 30 Jan 2020 (#2020-21)

There are 14 messages totaling 4386 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. First Point of Aries
  2. The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-) (8)
  3. 13520.11.11 - Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar
     month-lengths (3)
  4. 13520.11.11 - Re: 13520.11.10 - Re: First Point of Aries
  5. 13520.11.11 - Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 12:33:00 +0000
From:    Ed Kohout <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: First Point of Aries

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi,

Yes, it's easier to just ignore criticism than to answer it, if you think you are above criticism.

Am I correct in surmising that Michael has devised a new calendar that is basically the same as an existing calendar, and that is his point of being here at all?

- Ed

*****************************************

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:16 PM, Jamison Painter
<[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Awe, poor little Mikey can't take the same shit he dishes out to everybody else. What a whiney, pissy little brat.

Jamison E. Painter, MA

10 Pluviôse An CCXXVIII, Axe

On Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 2:03 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

I'm not going to waste any more time replying to Ed Kohout's angry noises.

As of now I'm blocking his e-mail so that it won't use-up inbox-space.

6 W
Aquarius 10th
Januarius 29th, 2020

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 11:55 PM Ed Kohout <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

  Ossipoff scribed:

"The ecliptic-longitude of Gamma Arietis is 33.55156 degrees."

No one cares about a 3.8 magnitude star, and if they did, it would have had a proper name.  No classical astrologer cares either.

No one outside of New Agey fluffery even cares about the silly Age of Aquarius.

Ossipoff needs to read, and then re-read, " The Origin of the Zodiac" by Rupert Gleadow, and then come back to lecture us on all the topic, because he still is incapable of calling the sidereal zodiac he is using.

How tedious!

- Ed


*****************************************

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 1:13 PM, Michael Ossipoff
<[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Walter--

.
First, before my reply to your post, let me just say that of course the astrologers' tropical and sidereal systems of ecliptic divisions are of interest and are astronomically-useful.
.
The tropical system is a good way of expressing ecliptic-longitudes, in terms of thirds of the astronomical quarters bounded by solstices and equinoxes.  ...and is the basis of a good system of ecliptic-months.
.
The sidereal system is a good way of expressing ecliptic positions on a star-map, with respect to the stars themselves, in a way named for the Zodiacal constellations that the divisions (roughly) coincide with.
.
Saying what degree of a certain sidereal-ecliptic-division a star is in tells you directly where it is with respect to constellations.
.
And, when an ecliptic-longitude is given, such a system tells you (at least roughly) where something is with respect to the constellations.
.
Of course the intrinsic, objective merit of such a system is a matter of how well its ecliptic-divisions match the Zodiacal constellations, and that's an individual matter. Of coure there's no reason why anyone couldn't use any sidereal 1st point of Aries they like, for their own sidereal system.
.
But of course communication requires standard terms and measures.
.
It's one thing to say, "It's at the 17th degree of Pisces in my favorite sidereal-system", but it's better to say, "It's in the 17th degree of Pisces".
.
A standard system makes it easier for us to know what eachother mean. That's why astrologers have a standard system. Evidently tropical and sidereal astrologers have different standard systems.
-------------------------------------------
The ecliptic-longitude of Gamma Arietis is 33.55156 degrees.
.
The standard ecliptic-longiitude that I read of, for the sidereal 1st point of Aries, for tropical astrologers, is 25 degrees. I admit that I haven't yet found again the source where I intially found that information, but I'll post it when I find it.
.
But I did find a source that tells the standard for sidereal astrologers: It's close to 24 degrees ecliptic longitude.
.
I'll find that source (or some source) for the ecliptic-longitude for the standard sidereal 1st point of Aries for tropical astrologers. In the meantime, of course I admit that I can't cite a source.
.
Based on the sidereal 1st point of Aries having the ecliptic-longitude of 33.55156, the ecliptic-longitude of Gamma Arietis, the Northward-Equinox was there in 403 B.C.   ...and the Age of Aquarius started in 1763 A.D.
.
Directly below, I quote a source for the value of 24 degrees for the ecliptic-longitude of the standard sidereal first point-of Aries for sidereal astrologrers.  They give an SVP (Sidereal Vernal Point) of about 6 degrees in Pisces. SVP is the position of the Northward-Equinox in some particular sidereal system of ecliptic signs (ecliptic-intervals).  6 degrees SVP means that that system's sidereal 1st point of Aries is at an ecliptical longitude of 24 degrees.

The tropical astrologers' standard 5 degree SVS means an ecliptic-longitude of 25 degrees for their sidereal first point of Aries.
.
Here's the pasted quote:

[quote]
Spica was therefore re-situated at 29VIRGO06’05” for the epoch 1950.0, placing the mean longitude of the Vernal point at 05 PISCES 57’28”.64 for the same point in time.
.
This is the basis of the Synetic Vernal Point (S.V.P.) utilized by Western Siderealists since 1957.
[/quote]
.
I point out that that standard ecliptic-longitude for the sidereal 1st point of Aries differs by only about 1 degree from the 25 degree value that I quoted for tropical astrologers' standard.  1 degree is a small distance in a constellation, and a small distance in the sky, which is 360 degrees around.
.
I'll also point out that the starting-date of the Age of Aquarius (for which my date was what started this discusion) is only 72 degrees later by the sidereal astrologers' 24 degree value, compared to the date that I stated.  432 years instead of 360 years.  (The 360 was rounded from 361).
.
Here's the URL for that article by a sidereal astrologer:
.
https://westernsiderealastrology.wordpress.com/western-sidereal-astrology-is-real-astrology/
.
6 Tu
Aquarius 9th
January 28th, 2020




------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:15:36 +0000
From:    Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]>
Subject: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:49:06 +0000
From:    Ed Kohout <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi Walter,

I'll buy all of that, except the part about Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues marking the rising and setting sun at the solstices.

Those avenues are at a 19.5° angle from latitude.  Curiously, the "Statue of Freedom" atop the Capitol dome is 19.5 feet tall, and we now inaugurate Presidents at that site 19.5 days into the new year, when the Sun is in the first degree of Aquarius.

- Ed

*****************************************

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:15 AM, Walter J Ziobro
<[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:06:18 -0500
From:    Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi Walter--

If the Northward-Equinox reached the ecliptic longitude of Gamma Arietis in 1783, then I made an error.

...because, by my determination of Gamma Arietis' ecliptic-longitude, 33.55156863, that would have occurred in 1763 (by the average precession rate of 26000/360) or in 1765 (by what someone quoted as the current precession-rate).

6 Th
Aquarius 11th
Januarius 30th, 2020

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:09:47 +0000
From:    Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]>
Subject: 13520.11.11 - Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths

This email originated from outside ECU.


11/11/13520 UCC


Dear Karl, Michael et al


Nice work Karl!


I did a similar exercise a few years ago when I was studying our orbit and the lengths of the Signs.

I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis!


I've reposted that blog on the UCC website, with the graphics I did back then, showing the various lengths I got in minutes etc


For those interested you can access the images etc here:


https://universalcelestialcalendar.com/blog-13515.06.01-orbit.htm


Regards


Litmus

-----------------------
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>

On 1/29/20 3:53 PM, [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Michael, Walter and Calendar People


I made use the data in the link for the year beginning with the March equinox of 2019 and find that Michael's method, but with the Extra day added to Capricorn does give the month lengths of the Indian National Calendar common year.


For my method I reckoned the cusps relative to the preceding March equinox, which equal to the total lengths of the elapsed ecliptic-months. Here I give the figures to the nearest hour.


030d 11h, 061d 10h, 092d 18h, 124d 05h, 155d 12h, 186d 10h

216d 20h, 246d 17h, 276d 06h, 305d 17h, 335d 08h, 365d 06h


These round to either

030 061 093 124 155 186

217 247 276 306 335 365

or

030 061 093 124 156 186

217 247 276 306 335 365

giving month lengths:

30 31 32 31 31 31

31 30 29 30 29 30

or

30 31 32 31 32 30

31 30 29 30 29 30

One would need to check other years to see which one is more accurate and even then the better one is just slightly more accurate than the other. So I'll stick with the former, which is more regular.


If one needs more regular months, one needs to sacrifice a little accuracy. I compare the rounding errors in hours of my (first) set of months with the Iranian set and the Indian National Calendar set. The figures are the number of hours each month starts after its cusp as listed above, starting with Aries, which is 00 and ending with Pisces. For the Indian National Calendar, one needs to take account of leap day on the first month so I use the average length of that month 30d 6h to the nearest hour.


Errors of my months

00 -11 -10 +06 -05 -12

-10 +04 +07 -06 +07 -08


Errors of Iranian Months

00 +13 +14 +06 -05 -12

-10 -20 -17 -06 +07 +16


Errors of Indian National Calendar Months

00 -11 -04 -12 -23 -30

-28 -38 -35 -24 -11 -02


The Iranian months are a good fit, but the Indian National months often start too early. The Indian National calendar makes up for this by starting its year a little later than the March equinox on March 22 for a common year or March 21 for a leap year.


However this shows up the weakness of Michael's method. The figures would be 6 hours worse, if the leap day were moved to the end of the year. In Micheal's method of rounding the month lengths, the rounding errors accumulate from month to month and the extra day only prevents them accumulating year to year.


Karl


Wednesday Alpha February 2020


------ Original Message ------ From: "[hidden email]"<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> To: "East Carolina University Calendar discussion List" <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, 29 Jan, 2020 At 11:01 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
Dear Michael and Calendar People

I tried using astrological terminology on Google remembering that astrologers call the start/end of an ecliptic-month a cusp and Googling 'zodiac cusp times' gave me exactly what I wanted at Cafe Astrology.

https://cafeastrology.com/sunsignbornonacusp.html

Karl

Wednesday Alpha February 2020

------ Original Message ------ From: "Michael Ossipoff" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, 28 Jan, 2020 At 17:28 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
This email originated from outside ECU.
...and surely any planetarium software, such as those mentioned by Litmus, will give you ecliptic longitudes. And many or most would probably give you the time of the Sun's arrival at any ecliptic-longitude.
6 Tu
Aquarius 9th
January 28th, 2020
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:23 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
If you meant my source for the astronomical ecliptic-month lengths, I've begun looking for it, but haven't yet found it. But any astrologer could direct you to a source.
But I point out that my calendrical ecliptic-month lengths are identical to those of the Indian National Calendar, other than their giving the extra day to Capricorn instead of to Sagittarius. They give it to Capricorn in order to keep all the calendrical month lengths to 30 and 31 days (and Capricorn is the ecliptic-month that's 2nd closest to rounding up instead of down).
6 Tu
Aquarius 9th
January 28th, 2020

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:11:12 -0500
From:    Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.

I meant to say that if the Northward-Equinox reached sidereal Aquarius in 1783, with the sidereal 1st point of Aries having the ecliptic-longitude of Gamma Arietis, then I made an error.

...because, given that ecliptic-longitude of the sidereal 1st point  of Aries, I determined that sidereal Aquarius would have been reached in 1763 or 1765, depending on whether the average precession-rate, or the quoted current precession-rate is used.

6 Th
Aquarius 11th
Januarius 30th, 2020


On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:06 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
Hi Walter--

If the Northward-Equinox reached the ecliptic longitude of Gamma Arietis in 1783, then I made an error.

...because, by my determination of Gamma Arietis' ecliptic-longitude, 33.55156863, that would have occurred in 1763 (by the average precession rate of 26000/360) or in 1765 (by what someone quoted as the current precession-rate).

6 Th
Aquarius 11th
Januarius 30th, 2020

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:16:30 +0000
From:    Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]>
Subject: 13520.11.11 - Re: 13520.11.10 - Re: First Point of Aries

This email originated from outside ECU.


11 Aquarius♒ 13520 UCC

Hey Sepp

Absolutely no need apologise! After all if we never have our errors corrected we never learn and grow...

Yes, my UCC 'Great Year' is the precessional cycle, as per Sri Yukteswar Giri from "The Holy Science".

I wrote the UCC Wiki a few years ago and wasn't aware that Plato was referring to a different cycle, as the sources I was using at the time all suggested the Platonic Year was the precessional cycle!

Luckily I only mentioned the name of Plato once so this is an easy amend to the Wiki!

Please could you send me a link for the Plato text you quoted? I would like to investigate further.

Regards

Litmus

-----------------------
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>

On 1/29/20 4:00 PM, Sepp ROTHWANGL wrote:

This email originated from outside ECU.




Am 29.01.2020 um 15:37 schrieb Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]>:

The Age of Aquarius is a 'Great Month'

So, what people call 'The Age of Aquarius' or the 'Age of Pisces' are merely Great Months within Great Seasons of the Great Year. Like the Year cycle of 12 "Zodiac Signs/Months", each having slightly different lengths due to the elliptic nature of our orbit, the Great Year cycle has 12 "Zodiac Ages/Great Months", each with varying lengths for similar reasons (see link above)





Sorry, but I must correct this:

We need to distinquish between Great Year (platonic Year)  and precessional year!

Plato never told of precession: He and many others were teaching the Doktrin of the Great Year:
After this, all stars, whose function it was to create time, arrived into each other's path... and had become living beings and they had noted, what was prescribed for them, there they began their cycle in the course of the ecliptic, which is diagonal, because it crosses the course of the equator... Nonetheless it is possible to realize the fact that the perfect number brings the perfect year then to the time of termination, when the mutual rates of all eight circulations arrive in complete agreement and again reach their starting point, based on the circle of the steadily turning equator. (Timaios 39 a-d)

Eidemos, Aristotle’s disciple at the Lykaion at Athens, illustrates this idea vividly: "There is a common multiple of all orbital times, the large year; at its expiration all planets are again in thesame place. If one believes the Pythagoreans, then I will return also in the future, as everything after its number returns, and I will tell you here again fairy tales, holding this stick in my hand, while you will sit likewise before me. Likewise everything else will repeat itself.“

They did not tell of precession, only doof teh period when the planets come to the common position and align as at beginn.

Some thing else is the change of the vernal equinox Konstellation due to precession caused be the wobble of Earth axis! This is NOT the Platonic year/month! But a precessional Year or Month

Please do not confuse this!

Servus Sepp

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:22:40 +0000
From:    Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.


Dear Michael

I'm sorry but I didn't mean to suggest that it reach that degree on the precise year and day I meant simply that the star was in that ecliptic degree, and would remain so for about 70 years

WalterZiobro


________________________________
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi Walter--

If the Northward-Equinox reached the ecliptic longitude of Gamma Arietis in 1783, then I made an error.

...because, by my determination of Gamma Arietis' ecliptic-longitude, 33.55156863, that would have occurred in 1763 (by the average precession rate of 26000/360) or in 1765 (by what someone quoted as the current precession-rate).

6 Th
Aquarius 11th
Januarius 30th, 2020

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:23:15 +0000
From:    Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.


Dear Ed

Close enough for government work

WalterZiobro


________________________________
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Ed Kohout <[hidden email]> wrote:

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi Walter,

I'll buy all of that, except the part about Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues marking the rising and setting sun at the solstices.

Those avenues are at a 19.5° angle from latitude.  Curiously, the "Statue of Freedom" atop the Capitol dome is 19.5 feet tall, and we now inaugurate Presidents at that site 19.5 days into the new year, when the Sun is in the first degree of Aquarius.

- Ed

*****************************************

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:15 AM, Walter J Ziobro
<[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:24:31 +0000
From:    Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]>
Subject: 13520.11.11 - Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.


11♒13520 UCC

Walter

Interesting! Well Washington is certainly packed with Freemasonic and esoteric symbolism...

Litmus

-----------------------
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>

On 1/30/20 3:15 PM, Walter J Ziobro wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:55:56 +0000
From:    Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.

:-D:-D:-D

-----------------------
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>

On 1/30/20 8:23 PM, Walter J Ziobro wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.


Dear Ed

Close enough for government work

WalterZiobro


________________________________
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Ed Kohout <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi Walter,

I'll buy all of that, except the part about Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues marking the rising and setting sun at the solstices.

Those avenues are at a 19.5° angle from latitude.  Curiously, the "Statue of Freedom" atop the Capitol dome is 19.5 feet tall, and we now inaugurate Presidents at that site 19.5 days into the new year, when the Sun is in the first degree of Aquarius.

- Ed

*****************************************

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:15 AM, Walter J Ziobro
<[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:15:14 -0500
From:    Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)

This email originated from outside ECU.

Ok, understood.

6 Th
Aquarius 11th
Januarius 30th, 2020

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.


Dear Michael

I'm sorry but I didn't mean to suggest that it reach that degree on the precise year and day I meant simply that the star was in that ecliptic degree, and would remain so for about 70 years

WalterZiobro


________________________________
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi Walter--

If the Northward-Equinox reached the ecliptic longitude of Gamma Arietis in 1783, then I made an error.

...because, by my determination of Gamma Arietis' ecliptic-longitude, 33.55156863, that would have occurred in 1763 (by the average precession rate of 26000/360) or in 1765 (by what someone quoted as the current precession-rate).

6 Th
Aquarius 11th
Januarius 30th, 2020

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Calendar List:

         I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.

Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.

Walter Ziobro

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jan 2020 02:33:09 +0000
From:    Ed Kohout <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: 13520.11.11 - Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi Litmus,

I did not study your link, so I may be errant .. you said:

>> I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis! <<

This is due to the Earths Apsis (axis of perihelion and aphelion, and orbital eccentricity) currently being near the solstical nodes, but if I remember correctly, our Apsis is drifts against the tropical axis in retrograde motion, perhaps half the rate of precession?

Thx for all of your efforts here!!

- Ed Kohout

*****************************************

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 1:10 PM, Litmus UCC Zone
<[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.


11/11/13520 UCC


Dear Karl, Michael et al


Nice work Karl!


I did a similar exercise a few years ago when I was studying our orbit and the lengths of the Signs.

I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis!


I've reposted that blog on the UCC website, with the graphics I did back then, showing the various lengths I got in minutes etc


For those interested you can access the images etc here:


https://universalcelestialcalendar.com/blog-13515.06.01-orbit.htm


Regards


Litmus

-----------------------
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>

On 1/29/20 3:53 PM, [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Michael, Walter and Calendar People


I made use the data in the link for the year beginning with the March equinox of 2019 and find that Michael's method, but with the Extra day added to Capricorn does give the month lengths of the Indian National Calendar common year.


For my method I reckoned the cusps relative to the preceding March equinox, which equal to the total lengths of the elapsed ecliptic-months. Here I give the figures to the nearest hour.


030d 11h, 061d 10h, 092d 18h, 124d 05h, 155d 12h, 186d 10h

216d 20h, 246d 17h, 276d 06h, 305d 17h, 335d 08h, 365d 06h


These round to either

030 061 093 124 155 186

217 247 276 306 335 365

or

030 061 093 124 156 186

217 247 276 306 335 365

giving month lengths:

30 31 32 31 31 31

31 30 29 30 29 30

or

30 31 32 31 32 30

31 30 29 30 29 30

One would need to check other years to see which one is more accurate and even then the better one is just slightly more accurate than the other. So I'll stick with the former, which is more regular.


If one needs more regular months, one needs to sacrifice a little accuracy. I compare the rounding errors in hours of my (first) set of months with the Iranian set and the Indian National Calendar set. The figures are the number of hours each month starts after its cusp as listed above, starting with Aries, which is 00 and ending with Pisces. For the Indian National Calendar, one needs to take account of leap day on the first month so I use the average length of that month 30d 6h to the nearest hour.


Errors of my months

00 -11 -10 +06 -05 -12

-10 +04 +07 -06 +07 -08


Errors of Iranian Months

00 +13 +14 +06 -05 -12

-10 -20 -17 -06 +07 +16


Errors of Indian National Calendar Months

00 -11 -04 -12 -23 -30

-28 -38 -35 -24 -11 -02


The Iranian months are a good fit, but the Indian National months often start too early. The Indian National calendar makes up for this by starting its year a little later than the March equinox on March 22 for a common year or March 21 for a leap year.


However this shows up the weakness of Michael's method. The figures would be 6 hours worse, if the leap day were moved to the end of the year. In Micheal's method of rounding the month lengths, the rounding errors accumulate from month to month and the extra day only prevents them accumulating year to year.


Karl


Wednesday Alpha February 2020


------ Original Message ------ From: "[hidden email]"<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> To: "East Carolina University Calendar discussion List" <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, 29 Jan, 2020 At 11:01 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
Dear Michael and Calendar People

I tried using astrological terminology on Google remembering that astrologers call the start/end of an ecliptic-month a cusp and Googling 'zodiac cusp times' gave me exactly what I wanted at Cafe Astrology.

https://cafeastrology.com/sunsignbornonacusp.html

Karl

Wednesday Alpha February 2020

------ Original Message ------ From: "Michael Ossipoff" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, 28 Jan, 2020 At 17:28 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
This email originated from outside ECU.
...and surely any planetarium software, such as those mentioned by Litmus, will give you ecliptic longitudes. And many or most would probably give you the time of the Sun's arrival at any ecliptic-longitude.
6 Tu
Aquarius 9th
January 28th, 2020
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:23 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
If you meant my source for the astronomical ecliptic-month lengths, I've begun looking for it, but haven't yet found it. But any astrologer could direct you to a source.
But I point out that my calendrical ecliptic-month lengths are identical to those of the Indian National Calendar, other than their giving the extra day to Capricorn instead of to Sagittarius. They give it to Capricorn in order to keep all the calendrical month lengths to 30 and 31 days (and Capricorn is the ecliptic-month that's 2nd closest to rounding up instead of down).
6 Tu
Aquarius 9th
January 28th, 2020

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jan 2020 03:20:31 +0000
From:    Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: 13520.11.11 - Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths

This email originated from outside ECU.


Yes, the perihelion and aphelion are processing relative to the equinoxes and solstices An entire cycle takes about 21,000 years

Currently, the perihelion falls early in January, about 2 weeks after the south solstice, and the aphelion occurs early in July, about 2 weeks after the northern solstice

According to Keplar's law of motion, the earth travels faster around the perihelion, and more slowly around the aphelion. This explains why longer months in the Iranian and Indian calendars happen near the aphelion, while shorter months occur close to the perihelion

WalterZiobro


________________________________
On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Ed Kohout <[hidden email]> wrote:

This email originated from outside ECU.

Hi Litmus,

I did not study your link, so I may be errant .. you said:

>> I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis! <<

This is due to the Earths Apsis (axis of perihelion and aphelion, and orbital eccentricity) currently being near the solstical nodes, but if I remember correctly, our Apsis is drifts against the tropical axis in retrograde motion, perhaps half the rate of precession?

Thx for all of your efforts here!!

- Ed Kohout

*****************************************

On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 1:10 PM, Litmus UCC Zone
<[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.


11/11/13520 UCC


Dear Karl, Michael et al


Nice work Karl!


I did a similar exercise a few years ago when I was studying our orbit and the lengths of the Signs.

I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis!


I've reposted that blog on the UCC website, with the graphics I did back then, showing the various lengths I got in minutes etc


For those interested you can access the images etc here:


https://universalcelestialcalendar.com/blog-13515.06.01-orbit.htm


Regards


Litmus

-----------------------
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>

On 1/29/20 3:53 PM, [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
This email originated from outside ECU.

Dear Michael, Walter and Calendar People


I made use the data in the link for the year beginning with the March equinox of 2019 and find that Michael's method, but with the Extra day added to Capricorn does give the month lengths of the Indian National Calendar common year.


For my method I reckoned the cusps relative to the preceding March equinox, which equal to the total lengths of the elapsed ecliptic-months. Here I give the figures to the nearest hour.


030d 11h, 061d 10h, 092d 18h, 124d 05h, 155d 12h, 186d 10h

216d 20h, 246d 17h, 276d 06h, 305d 17h, 335d 08h, 365d 06h


These round to either

030 061 093 124 155 186

217 247 276 306 335 365

or

030 061 093 124 156 186

217 247 276 306 335 365

giving month lengths:

30 31 32 31 31 31

31 30 29 30 29 30

or

30 31 32 31 32 30

31 30 29 30 29 30

One would need to check other years to see which one is more accurate and even then the better one is just slightly more accurate than the other. So I'll stick with the former, which is more regular.


If one needs more regular months, one needs to sacrifice a little accuracy. I compare the rounding errors in hours of my (first) set of months with the Iranian set and the Indian National Calendar set. The figures are the number of hours each month starts after its cusp as listed above, starting with Aries, which is 00 and ending with Pisces. For the Indian National Calendar, one needs to take account of leap day on the first month so I use the average length of that month 30d 6h to the nearest hour.


Errors of my months

00 -11 -10 +06 -05 -12

-10 +04 +07 -06 +07 -08


Errors of Iranian Months

00 +13 +14 +06 -05 -12

-10 -20 -17 -06 +07 +16


Errors of Indian National Calendar Months

00 -11 -04 -12 -23 -30

-28 -38 -35 -24 -11 -02


The Iranian months are a good fit, but the Indian National months often start too early. The Indian National calendar makes up for this by starting its year a little later than the March equinox on March 22 for a common year or March 21 for a leap year.


However this shows up the weakness of Michael's method. The figures would be 6 hours worse, if the leap day were moved to the end of the year. In Micheal's method of rounding the month lengths, the rounding errors accumulate from month to month and the extra day only prevents them accumulating year to year.


Karl


Wednesday Alpha February 2020


------ Original Message ------ From: "[hidden email]"<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> To: "East Carolina University Calendar discussion List" <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, 29 Jan, 2020 At 11:01 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
Dear Michael and Calendar People

I tried using astrological terminology on Google remembering that astrologers call the start/end of an ecliptic-month a cusp and Googling 'zodiac cusp times' gave me exactly what I wanted at Cafe Astrology.

https://cafeastrology.com/sunsignbornonacusp.html

Karl

Wednesday Alpha February 2020

------ Original Message ------ From: "Michael Ossipoff" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, 28 Jan, 2020 At 17:28 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
This email originated from outside ECU.
...and surely any planetarium software, such as those mentioned by Litmus, will give you ecliptic longitudes. And many or most would probably give you the time of the Sun's arrival at any ecliptic-longitude.
6 Tu
Aquarius 9th
January 28th, 2020
On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:23 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
If you meant my source for the astronomical ecliptic-month lengths, I've begun looking for it, but haven't yet found it. But any astrologer could direct you to a source.
But I point out that my calendrical ecliptic-month lengths are identical to those of the Indian National Calendar, other than their giving the extra day to Capricorn instead of to Sagittarius. They give it to Capricorn in order to keep all the calendrical month lengths to 30 and 31 days (and Capricorn is the ecliptic-month that's 2nd closest to rounding up instead of down).
6 Tu
Aquarius 9th
January 28th, 2020

------------------------------

End of CALNDR-L Digest - 29 Jan 2020 to 30 Jan 2020 (#2020-21)
**************************************************************
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13520.11.19 - Re: CALNDR-L Digest - 29 Jan 2020 to 30 Jan 2020 (#2020-21)

Litmus A Freeman
This email originated from outside ECU.


19 Aquarius♒ 13520 UCC

Dear John

Thanks for sharing your info. Another good source of info to help sort
out those pesky flat earthers who have made a big come back in recent
times following the relaunch of that deceptive, distractive and
destructive psyop!

All the best

Litmus

-----------------------
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar (UCC)
www.universalcelestialcalendar.com

On 2/1/20 12:38 AM, John wrote:

> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> Hi folks, returning to the list after a long break I see Aquarius and Aries still in contention. Back then I raised the notion of integrating sidereal time with mean solar time. While we are about it, why not publish lunar time too as a special for fishermen and others? The most useful tool for integrating different time regimes is the set of Fibonacci numbers, which can be incorporated into any calendar.  Please visit www fibonaccitime.info.
> Cheers, john regan.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of CALNDR-L automatic digest system
> Sent: Friday, 31 January 2020 3:00 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: CALNDR-L Digest - 29 Jan 2020 to 30 Jan 2020 (#2020-21)
>
> There are 14 messages totaling 4386 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics of the day:
>
>    1. First Point of Aries
>    2. The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-) (8)
>    3. 13520.11.11 - Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar
>       month-lengths (3)
>    4. 13520.11.11 - Re: 13520.11.10 - Re: First Point of Aries
>    5. 13520.11.11 - Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 12:33:00 +0000
> From:    Ed Kohout <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: First Point of Aries
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi,
>
> Yes, it's easier to just ignore criticism than to answer it, if you think you are above criticism.
>
> Am I correct in surmising that Michael has devised a new calendar that is basically the same as an existing calendar, and that is his point of being here at all?
>
> - Ed
>
> *****************************************
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020 at 9:16 PM, Jamison Painter
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Awe, poor little Mikey can't take the same shit he dishes out to everybody else. What a whiney, pissy little brat.
>
> Jamison E. Painter, MA
>
> 10 Pluviôse An CCXXVIII, Axe
>
> On Wed, Jan 29, 2020, 2:03 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> I'm not going to waste any more time replying to Ed Kohout's angry noises.
>
> As of now I'm blocking his e-mail so that it won't use-up inbox-space.
>
> 6 W
> Aquarius 10th
> Januarius 29th, 2020
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 11:55 PM Ed Kohout <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>    Ossipoff scribed:
>
> "The ecliptic-longitude of Gamma Arietis is 33.55156 degrees."
>
> No one cares about a 3.8 magnitude star, and if they did, it would have had a proper name.  No classical astrologer cares either.
>
> No one outside of New Agey fluffery even cares about the silly Age of Aquarius.
>
> Ossipoff needs to read, and then re-read, " The Origin of the Zodiac" by Rupert Gleadow, and then come back to lecture us on all the topic, because he still is incapable of calling the sidereal zodiac he is using.
>
> How tedious!
>
> - Ed
>
>
> *****************************************
>
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 1:13 PM, Michael Ossipoff
> <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Walter--
>
> .
> First, before my reply to your post, let me just say that of course the astrologers' tropical and sidereal systems of ecliptic divisions are of interest and are astronomically-useful.
> .
> The tropical system is a good way of expressing ecliptic-longitudes, in terms of thirds of the astronomical quarters bounded by solstices and equinoxes.  ...and is the basis of a good system of ecliptic-months.
> .
> The sidereal system is a good way of expressing ecliptic positions on a star-map, with respect to the stars themselves, in a way named for the Zodiacal constellations that the divisions (roughly) coincide with.
> .
> Saying what degree of a certain sidereal-ecliptic-division a star is in tells you directly where it is with respect to constellations.
> .
> And, when an ecliptic-longitude is given, such a system tells you (at least roughly) where something is with respect to the constellations.
> .
> Of course the intrinsic, objective merit of such a system is a matter of how well its ecliptic-divisions match the Zodiacal constellations, and that's an individual matter. Of coure there's no reason why anyone couldn't use any sidereal 1st point of Aries they like, for their own sidereal system.
> .
> But of course communication requires standard terms and measures.
> .
> It's one thing to say, "It's at the 17th degree of Pisces in my favorite sidereal-system", but it's better to say, "It's in the 17th degree of Pisces".
> .
> A standard system makes it easier for us to know what eachother mean. That's why astrologers have a standard system. Evidently tropical and sidereal astrologers have different standard systems.
> -------------------------------------------
> The ecliptic-longitude of Gamma Arietis is 33.55156 degrees.
> .
> The standard ecliptic-longiitude that I read of, for the sidereal 1st point of Aries, for tropical astrologers, is 25 degrees. I admit that I haven't yet found again the source where I intially found that information, but I'll post it when I find it.
> .
> But I did find a source that tells the standard for sidereal astrologers: It's close to 24 degrees ecliptic longitude.
> .
> I'll find that source (or some source) for the ecliptic-longitude for the standard sidereal 1st point of Aries for tropical astrologers. In the meantime, of course I admit that I can't cite a source.
> .
> Based on the sidereal 1st point of Aries having the ecliptic-longitude of 33.55156, the ecliptic-longitude of Gamma Arietis, the Northward-Equinox was there in 403 B.C.   ...and the Age of Aquarius started in 1763 A.D.
> .
> Directly below, I quote a source for the value of 24 degrees for the ecliptic-longitude of the standard sidereal first point-of Aries for sidereal astrologrers.  They give an SVP (Sidereal Vernal Point) of about 6 degrees in Pisces. SVP is the position of the Northward-Equinox in some particular sidereal system of ecliptic signs (ecliptic-intervals).  6 degrees SVP means that that system's sidereal 1st point of Aries is at an ecliptical longitude of 24 degrees.
>
> The tropical astrologers' standard 5 degree SVS means an ecliptic-longitude of 25 degrees for their sidereal first point of Aries.
> .
> Here's the pasted quote:
>
> [quote]
> Spica was therefore re-situated at 29VIRGO06’05” for the epoch 1950.0, placing the mean longitude of the Vernal point at 05 PISCES 57’28”.64 for the same point in time.
> .
> This is the basis of the Synetic Vernal Point (S.V.P.) utilized by Western Siderealists since 1957.
> [/quote]
> .
> I point out that that standard ecliptic-longitude for the sidereal 1st point of Aries differs by only about 1 degree from the 25 degree value that I quoted for tropical astrologers' standard.  1 degree is a small distance in a constellation, and a small distance in the sky, which is 360 degrees around.
> .
> I'll also point out that the starting-date of the Age of Aquarius (for which my date was what started this discusion) is only 72 degrees later by the sidereal astrologers' 24 degree value, compared to the date that I stated.  432 years instead of 360 years.  (The 360 was rounded from 361).
> .
> Here's the URL for that article by a sidereal astrologer:
> .
> https://westernsiderealastrology.wordpress.com/western-sidereal-astrology-is-real-astrology/
> .
> 6 Tu
> Aquarius 9th
> January 28th, 2020
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:15:36 +0000
> From:    Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]>
> Subject: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:49:06 +0000
> From:    Ed Kohout <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi Walter,
>
> I'll buy all of that, except the part about Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues marking the rising and setting sun at the solstices.
>
> Those avenues are at a 19.5° angle from latitude.  Curiously, the "Statue of Freedom" atop the Capitol dome is 19.5 feet tall, and we now inaugurate Presidents at that site 19.5 days into the new year, when the Sun is in the first degree of Aquarius.
>
> - Ed
>
> *****************************************
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:15 AM, Walter J Ziobro
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:06:18 -0500
> From:    Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi Walter--
>
> If the Northward-Equinox reached the ecliptic longitude of Gamma Arietis in 1783, then I made an error.
>
> ...because, by my determination of Gamma Arietis' ecliptic-longitude, 33.55156863, that would have occurred in 1763 (by the average precession rate of 26000/360) or in 1765 (by what someone quoted as the current precession-rate).
>
> 6 Th
> Aquarius 11th
> Januarius 30th, 2020
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:09:47 +0000
> From:    Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]>
> Subject: 13520.11.11 - Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> 11/11/13520 UCC
>
>
> Dear Karl, Michael et al
>
>
> Nice work Karl!
>
>
> I did a similar exercise a few years ago when I was studying our orbit and the lengths of the Signs.
>
> I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis!
>
>
> I've reposted that blog on the UCC website, with the graphics I did back then, showing the various lengths I got in minutes etc
>
>
> For those interested you can access the images etc here:
>
>
> https://universalcelestialcalendar.com/blog-13515.06.01-orbit.htm
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Litmus
>
> -----------------------
> Litmus A Freeman
> Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
> www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>
>
> On 1/29/20 3:53 PM, [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Michael, Walter and Calendar People
>
>
> I made use the data in the link for the year beginning with the March equinox of 2019 and find that Michael's method, but with the Extra day added to Capricorn does give the month lengths of the Indian National Calendar common year.
>
>
> For my method I reckoned the cusps relative to the preceding March equinox, which equal to the total lengths of the elapsed ecliptic-months. Here I give the figures to the nearest hour.
>
>
> 030d 11h, 061d 10h, 092d 18h, 124d 05h, 155d 12h, 186d 10h
>
> 216d 20h, 246d 17h, 276d 06h, 305d 17h, 335d 08h, 365d 06h
>
>
> These round to either
>
> 030 061 093 124 155 186
>
> 217 247 276 306 335 365
>
> or
>
> 030 061 093 124 156 186
>
> 217 247 276 306 335 365
>
> giving month lengths:
>
> 30 31 32 31 31 31
>
> 31 30 29 30 29 30
>
> or
>
> 30 31 32 31 32 30
>
> 31 30 29 30 29 30
>
> One would need to check other years to see which one is more accurate and even then the better one is just slightly more accurate than the other. So I'll stick with the former, which is more regular.
>
>
> If one needs more regular months, one needs to sacrifice a little accuracy. I compare the rounding errors in hours of my (first) set of months with the Iranian set and the Indian National Calendar set. The figures are the number of hours each month starts after its cusp as listed above, starting with Aries, which is 00 and ending with Pisces. For the Indian National Calendar, one needs to take account of leap day on the first month so I use the average length of that month 30d 6h to the nearest hour.
>
>
> Errors of my months
>
> 00 -11 -10 +06 -05 -12
>
> -10 +04 +07 -06 +07 -08
>
>
> Errors of Iranian Months
>
> 00 +13 +14 +06 -05 -12
>
> -10 -20 -17 -06 +07 +16
>
>
> Errors of Indian National Calendar Months
>
> 00 -11 -04 -12 -23 -30
>
> -28 -38 -35 -24 -11 -02
>
>
> The Iranian months are a good fit, but the Indian National months often start too early. The Indian National calendar makes up for this by starting its year a little later than the March equinox on March 22 for a common year or March 21 for a leap year.
>
>
> However this shows up the weakness of Michael's method. The figures would be 6 hours worse, if the leap day were moved to the end of the year. In Micheal's method of rounding the month lengths, the rounding errors accumulate from month to month and the extra day only prevents them accumulating year to year.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
> Wednesday Alpha February 2020
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------ From: "[hidden email]"<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> To: "East Carolina University Calendar discussion List" <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, 29 Jan, 2020 At 11:01 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
> Dear Michael and Calendar People
>
> I tried using astrological terminology on Google remembering that astrologers call the start/end of an ecliptic-month a cusp and Googling 'zodiac cusp times' gave me exactly what I wanted at Cafe Astrology.
>
> https://cafeastrology.com/sunsignbornonacusp.html
>
> Karl
>
> Wednesday Alpha February 2020
>
> ------ Original Message ------ From: "Michael Ossipoff" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, 28 Jan, 2020 At 17:28 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
> This email originated from outside ECU.
> ...and surely any planetarium software, such as those mentioned by Litmus, will give you ecliptic longitudes. And many or most would probably give you the time of the Sun's arrival at any ecliptic-longitude.
> 6 Tu
> Aquarius 9th
> January 28th, 2020
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:23 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> If you meant my source for the astronomical ecliptic-month lengths, I've begun looking for it, but haven't yet found it. But any astrologer could direct you to a source.
> But I point out that my calendrical ecliptic-month lengths are identical to those of the Indian National Calendar, other than their giving the extra day to Capricorn instead of to Sagittarius. They give it to Capricorn in order to keep all the calendrical month lengths to 30 and 31 days (and Capricorn is the ecliptic-month that's 2nd closest to rounding up instead of down).
> 6 Tu
> Aquarius 9th
> January 28th, 2020
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 15:11:12 -0500
> From:    Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> I meant to say that if the Northward-Equinox reached sidereal Aquarius in 1783, with the sidereal 1st point of Aries having the ecliptic-longitude of Gamma Arietis, then I made an error.
>
> ...because, given that ecliptic-longitude of the sidereal 1st point  of Aries, I determined that sidereal Aquarius would have been reached in 1763 or 1765, depending on whether the average precession-rate, or the quoted current precession-rate is used.
>
> 6 Th
> Aquarius 11th
> Januarius 30th, 2020
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:06 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> Hi Walter--
>
> If the Northward-Equinox reached the ecliptic longitude of Gamma Arietis in 1783, then I made an error.
>
> ...because, by my determination of Gamma Arietis' ecliptic-longitude, 33.55156863, that would have occurred in 1763 (by the average precession rate of 26000/360) or in 1765 (by what someone quoted as the current precession-rate).
>
> 6 Th
> Aquarius 11th
> Januarius 30th, 2020
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:16:30 +0000
> From:    Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]>
> Subject: 13520.11.11 - Re: 13520.11.10 - Re: First Point of Aries
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> 11 Aquarius♒ 13520 UCC
>
> Hey Sepp
>
> Absolutely no need apologise! After all if we never have our errors corrected we never learn and grow...
>
> Yes, my UCC 'Great Year' is the precessional cycle, as per Sri Yukteswar Giri from "The Holy Science".
>
> I wrote the UCC Wiki a few years ago and wasn't aware that Plato was referring to a different cycle, as the sources I was using at the time all suggested the Platonic Year was the precessional cycle!
>
> Luckily I only mentioned the name of Plato once so this is an easy amend to the Wiki!
>
> Please could you send me a link for the Plato text you quoted? I would like to investigate further.
>
> Regards
>
> Litmus
>
> -----------------------
> Litmus A Freeman
> Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
> www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>
>
> On 1/29/20 4:00 PM, Sepp ROTHWANGL wrote:
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
>
>
> Am 29.01.2020 um 15:37 schrieb Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]>:
>
> The Age of Aquarius is a 'Great Month'
>
> So, what people call 'The Age of Aquarius' or the 'Age of Pisces' are merely Great Months within Great Seasons of the Great Year. Like the Year cycle of 12 "Zodiac Signs/Months", each having slightly different lengths due to the elliptic nature of our orbit, the Great Year cycle has 12 "Zodiac Ages/Great Months", each with varying lengths for similar reasons (see link above)
>
>
>
>
>
> Sorry, but I must correct this:
>
> We need to distinquish between Great Year (platonic Year)  and precessional year!
>
> Plato never told of precession: He and many others were teaching the Doktrin of the Great Year:
> After this, all stars, whose function it was to create time, arrived into each other's path... and had become living beings and they had noted, what was prescribed for them, there they began their cycle in the course of the ecliptic, which is diagonal, because it crosses the course of the equator... Nonetheless it is possible to realize the fact that the perfect number brings the perfect year then to the time of termination, when the mutual rates of all eight circulations arrive in complete agreement and again reach their starting point, based on the circle of the steadily turning equator. (Timaios 39 a-d)
>
> Eidemos, Aristotle’s disciple at the Lykaion at Athens, illustrates this idea vividly: "There is a common multiple of all orbital times, the large year; at its expiration all planets are again in thesame place. If one believes the Pythagoreans, then I will return also in the future, as everything after its number returns, and I will tell you here again fairy tales, holding this stick in my hand, while you will sit likewise before me. Likewise everything else will repeat itself.“
>
> They did not tell of precession, only doof teh period when the planets come to the common position and align as at beginn.
>
> Some thing else is the change of the vernal equinox Konstellation due to precession caused be the wobble of Earth axis! This is NOT the Platonic year/month! But a precessional Year or Month
>
> Please do not confuse this!
>
> Servus Sepp
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:22:40 +0000
> From:    Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> Dear Michael
>
> I'm sorry but I didn't mean to suggest that it reach that degree on the precise year and day I meant simply that the star was in that ecliptic degree, and would remain so for about 70 years
>
> WalterZiobro
>
>
> ________________________________
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi Walter--
>
> If the Northward-Equinox reached the ecliptic longitude of Gamma Arietis in 1783, then I made an error.
>
> ...because, by my determination of Gamma Arietis' ecliptic-longitude, 33.55156863, that would have occurred in 1763 (by the average precession rate of 26000/360) or in 1765 (by what someone quoted as the current precession-rate).
>
> 6 Th
> Aquarius 11th
> Januarius 30th, 2020
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:23:15 +0000
> From:    Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> Dear Ed
>
> Close enough for government work
>
> WalterZiobro
>
>
> ________________________________
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Ed Kohout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi Walter,
>
> I'll buy all of that, except the part about Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues marking the rising and setting sun at the solstices.
>
> Those avenues are at a 19.5° angle from latitude.  Curiously, the "Statue of Freedom" atop the Capitol dome is 19.5 feet tall, and we now inaugurate Presidents at that site 19.5 days into the new year, when the Sun is in the first degree of Aquarius.
>
> - Ed
>
> *****************************************
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:15 AM, Walter J Ziobro
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:24:31 +0000
> From:    Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]>
> Subject: 13520.11.11 - Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> 11♒13520 UCC
>
> Walter
>
> Interesting! Well Washington is certainly packed with Freemasonic and esoteric symbolism...
>
> Litmus
>
> -----------------------
> Litmus A Freeman
> Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
> www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>
>
> On 1/30/20 3:15 PM, Walter J Ziobro wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 20:55:56 +0000
> From:    Litmus UCC Zone <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> :-D:-D:-D
>
> -----------------------
> Litmus A Freeman
> Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
> www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>
>
> On 1/30/20 8:23 PM, Walter J Ziobro wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> Dear Ed
>
> Close enough for government work
>
> WalterZiobro
>
>
> ________________________________
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Ed Kohout <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi Walter,
>
> I'll buy all of that, except the part about Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues marking the rising and setting sun at the solstices.
>
> Those avenues are at a 19.5° angle from latitude.  Curiously, the "Statue of Freedom" atop the Capitol dome is 19.5 feet tall, and we now inaugurate Presidents at that site 19.5 days into the new year, when the Sun is in the first degree of Aquarius.
>
> - Ed
>
> *****************************************
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 8:15 AM, Walter J Ziobro
> <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Thu, 30 Jan 2020 18:15:14 -0500
> From:    Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: The First Day of the Age of Aquarius ;-)
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Ok, understood.
>
> 6 Th
> Aquarius 11th
> Januarius 30th, 2020
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 3:22 PM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> Dear Michael
>
> I'm sorry but I didn't mean to suggest that it reach that degree on the precise year and day I meant simply that the star was in that ecliptic degree, and would remain so for about 70 years
>
> WalterZiobro
>
>
> ________________________________
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi Walter--
>
> If the Northward-Equinox reached the ecliptic longitude of Gamma Arietis in 1783, then I made an error.
>
> ...because, by my determination of Gamma Arietis' ecliptic-longitude, 33.55156863, that would have occurred in 1763 (by the average precession rate of 26000/360) or in 1765 (by what someone quoted as the current precession-rate).
>
> 6 Th
> Aquarius 11th
> Januarius 30th, 2020
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 10:15 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Calendar List:
>
>           I have identified the first day of the Age of Aquarius.  It was September 18, 1793.  On that day, during the period in which Gamma Arietis, the star identified as the First Point of Aires by Copernicus, was at the 30th tropical ecliptic degree, after the nearly equatorial sun had risen over what would become East Capitol Street, George Washington, then first President of the United States, appropriately wearing the regalia of the Masonic Lodge, that ancient guild of builders, mounted Jenkins Hill. at a point just a few hundred feet west of 77 West Longitude, the meridian that many years earlier John Dee had identified as "God's Longitude,"  to dedicate the cornerstone of the US Capitol building, from which point the radial Maryland and Pennsylvania Avenues would mark the rising and setting of the sun at the solstices.
>
> Now, admittedly, the Age of Aquarius is such a squishy concept, that many curious measures have been suggested to mark its beginning.  But, IMO, few events combine esoteric symbols of time and place more wonderfully than this one.
>
> Walter Ziobro
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 31 Jan 2020 02:33:09 +0000
> From:    Ed Kohout <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: 13520.11.11 - Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi Litmus,
>
> I did not study your link, so I may be errant .. you said:
>
>>> I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis! <<
> This is due to the Earths Apsis (axis of perihelion and aphelion, and orbital eccentricity) currently being near the solstical nodes, but if I remember correctly, our Apsis is drifts against the tropical axis in retrograde motion, perhaps half the rate of precession?
>
> Thx for all of your efforts here!!
>
> - Ed Kohout
>
> *****************************************
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 1:10 PM, Litmus UCC Zone
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> 11/11/13520 UCC
>
>
> Dear Karl, Michael et al
>
>
> Nice work Karl!
>
>
> I did a similar exercise a few years ago when I was studying our orbit and the lengths of the Signs.
>
> I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis!
>
>
> I've reposted that blog on the UCC website, with the graphics I did back then, showing the various lengths I got in minutes etc
>
>
> For those interested you can access the images etc here:
>
>
> https://universalcelestialcalendar.com/blog-13515.06.01-orbit.htm
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Litmus
>
> -----------------------
> Litmus A Freeman
> Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
> www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>
>
> On 1/29/20 3:53 PM, [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Michael, Walter and Calendar People
>
>
> I made use the data in the link for the year beginning with the March equinox of 2019 and find that Michael's method, but with the Extra day added to Capricorn does give the month lengths of the Indian National Calendar common year.
>
>
> For my method I reckoned the cusps relative to the preceding March equinox, which equal to the total lengths of the elapsed ecliptic-months. Here I give the figures to the nearest hour.
>
>
> 030d 11h, 061d 10h, 092d 18h, 124d 05h, 155d 12h, 186d 10h
>
> 216d 20h, 246d 17h, 276d 06h, 305d 17h, 335d 08h, 365d 06h
>
>
> These round to either
>
> 030 061 093 124 155 186
>
> 217 247 276 306 335 365
>
> or
>
> 030 061 093 124 156 186
>
> 217 247 276 306 335 365
>
> giving month lengths:
>
> 30 31 32 31 31 31
>
> 31 30 29 30 29 30
>
> or
>
> 30 31 32 31 32 30
>
> 31 30 29 30 29 30
>
> One would need to check other years to see which one is more accurate and even then the better one is just slightly more accurate than the other. So I'll stick with the former, which is more regular.
>
>
> If one needs more regular months, one needs to sacrifice a little accuracy. I compare the rounding errors in hours of my (first) set of months with the Iranian set and the Indian National Calendar set. The figures are the number of hours each month starts after its cusp as listed above, starting with Aries, which is 00 and ending with Pisces. For the Indian National Calendar, one needs to take account of leap day on the first month so I use the average length of that month 30d 6h to the nearest hour.
>
>
> Errors of my months
>
> 00 -11 -10 +06 -05 -12
>
> -10 +04 +07 -06 +07 -08
>
>
> Errors of Iranian Months
>
> 00 +13 +14 +06 -05 -12
>
> -10 -20 -17 -06 +07 +16
>
>
> Errors of Indian National Calendar Months
>
> 00 -11 -04 -12 -23 -30
>
> -28 -38 -35 -24 -11 -02
>
>
> The Iranian months are a good fit, but the Indian National months often start too early. The Indian National calendar makes up for this by starting its year a little later than the March equinox on March 22 for a common year or March 21 for a leap year.
>
>
> However this shows up the weakness of Michael's method. The figures would be 6 hours worse, if the leap day were moved to the end of the year. In Micheal's method of rounding the month lengths, the rounding errors accumulate from month to month and the extra day only prevents them accumulating year to year.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
> Wednesday Alpha February 2020
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------ From: "[hidden email]"<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> To: "East Carolina University Calendar discussion List" <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, 29 Jan, 2020 At 11:01 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
> Dear Michael and Calendar People
>
> I tried using astrological terminology on Google remembering that astrologers call the start/end of an ecliptic-month a cusp and Googling 'zodiac cusp times' gave me exactly what I wanted at Cafe Astrology.
>
> https://cafeastrology.com/sunsignbornonacusp.html
>
> Karl
>
> Wednesday Alpha February 2020
>
> ------ Original Message ------ From: "Michael Ossipoff" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, 28 Jan, 2020 At 17:28 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
> This email originated from outside ECU.
> ...and surely any planetarium software, such as those mentioned by Litmus, will give you ecliptic longitudes. And many or most would probably give you the time of the Sun's arrival at any ecliptic-longitude.
> 6 Tu
> Aquarius 9th
> January 28th, 2020
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:23 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> If you meant my source for the astronomical ecliptic-month lengths, I've begun looking for it, but haven't yet found it. But any astrologer could direct you to a source.
> But I point out that my calendrical ecliptic-month lengths are identical to those of the Indian National Calendar, other than their giving the extra day to Capricorn instead of to Sagittarius. They give it to Capricorn in order to keep all the calendrical month lengths to 30 and 31 days (and Capricorn is the ecliptic-month that's 2nd closest to rounding up instead of down).
> 6 Tu
> Aquarius 9th
> January 28th, 2020
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 31 Jan 2020 03:20:31 +0000
> From:    Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: 13520.11.11 - Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> Yes, the perihelion and aphelion are processing relative to the equinoxes and solstices An entire cycle takes about 21,000 years
>
> Currently, the perihelion falls early in January, about 2 weeks after the south solstice, and the aphelion occurs early in July, about 2 weeks after the northern solstice
>
> According to Keplar's law of motion, the earth travels faster around the perihelion, and more slowly around the aphelion. This explains why longer months in the Iranian and Indian calendars happen near the aphelion, while shorter months occur close to the perihelion
>
> WalterZiobro
>
>
> ________________________________
> On Thursday, January 30, 2020 Ed Kohout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Hi Litmus,
>
> I did not study your link, so I may be errant .. you said:
>
>>> I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis! <<
> This is due to the Earths Apsis (axis of perihelion and aphelion, and orbital eccentricity) currently being near the solstical nodes, but if I remember correctly, our Apsis is drifts against the tropical axis in retrograde motion, perhaps half the rate of precession?
>
> Thx for all of your efforts here!!
>
> - Ed Kohout
>
> *****************************************
>
> On Thu, Jan 30, 2020 at 1:10 PM, Litmus UCC Zone
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
>
> 11/11/13520 UCC
>
>
> Dear Karl, Michael et al
>
>
> Nice work Karl!
>
>
> I did a similar exercise a few years ago when I was studying our orbit and the lengths of the Signs.
>
> I found that the Signs fall into Odd and Even groups in terms of length, either side of the Solstice axis!
>
>
> I've reposted that blog on the UCC website, with the graphics I did back then, showing the various lengths I got in minutes etc
>
>
> For those interested you can access the images etc here:
>
>
> https://universalcelestialcalendar.com/blog-13515.06.01-orbit.htm
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Litmus
>
> -----------------------
> Litmus A Freeman
> Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar
> www.universalcelestialcalendar.com<http://www.universalcelestialcalendar.com>
>
> On 1/29/20 3:53 PM, [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> wrote:
> This email originated from outside ECU.
>
> Dear Michael, Walter and Calendar People
>
>
> I made use the data in the link for the year beginning with the March equinox of 2019 and find that Michael's method, but with the Extra day added to Capricorn does give the month lengths of the Indian National Calendar common year.
>
>
> For my method I reckoned the cusps relative to the preceding March equinox, which equal to the total lengths of the elapsed ecliptic-months. Here I give the figures to the nearest hour.
>
>
> 030d 11h, 061d 10h, 092d 18h, 124d 05h, 155d 12h, 186d 10h
>
> 216d 20h, 246d 17h, 276d 06h, 305d 17h, 335d 08h, 365d 06h
>
>
> These round to either
>
> 030 061 093 124 155 186
>
> 217 247 276 306 335 365
>
> or
>
> 030 061 093 124 156 186
>
> 217 247 276 306 335 365
>
> giving month lengths:
>
> 30 31 32 31 31 31
>
> 31 30 29 30 29 30
>
> or
>
> 30 31 32 31 32 30
>
> 31 30 29 30 29 30
>
> One would need to check other years to see which one is more accurate and even then the better one is just slightly more accurate than the other. So I'll stick with the former, which is more regular.
>
>
> If one needs more regular months, one needs to sacrifice a little accuracy. I compare the rounding errors in hours of my (first) set of months with the Iranian set and the Indian National Calendar set. The figures are the number of hours each month starts after its cusp as listed above, starting with Aries, which is 00 and ending with Pisces. For the Indian National Calendar, one needs to take account of leap day on the first month so I use the average length of that month 30d 6h to the nearest hour.
>
>
> Errors of my months
>
> 00 -11 -10 +06 -05 -12
>
> -10 +04 +07 -06 +07 -08
>
>
> Errors of Iranian Months
>
> 00 +13 +14 +06 -05 -12
>
> -10 -20 -17 -06 +07 +16
>
>
> Errors of Indian National Calendar Months
>
> 00 -11 -04 -12 -23 -30
>
> -28 -38 -35 -24 -11 -02
>
>
> The Iranian months are a good fit, but the Indian National months often start too early. The Indian National calendar makes up for this by starting its year a little later than the March equinox on March 22 for a common year or March 21 for a leap year.
>
>
> However this shows up the weakness of Michael's method. The figures would be 6 hours worse, if the leap day were moved to the end of the year. In Micheal's method of rounding the month lengths, the rounding errors accumulate from month to month and the extra day only prevents them accumulating year to year.
>
>
> Karl
>
>
> Wednesday Alpha February 2020
>
>
> ------ Original Message ------ From: "[hidden email]"<mailto:[hidden email]> <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> To: "East Carolina University Calendar discussion List" <[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Wednesday, 29 Jan, 2020 At 11:01 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
> Dear Michael and Calendar People
>
> I tried using astrological terminology on Google remembering that astrologers call the start/end of an ecliptic-month a cusp and Googling 'zodiac cusp times' gave me exactly what I wanted at Cafe Astrology.
>
> https://cafeastrology.com/sunsignbornonacusp.html
>
> Karl
>
> Wednesday Alpha February 2020
>
> ------ Original Message ------ From: "Michael Ossipoff" <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, 28 Jan, 2020 At 17:28 Subject: Re: Eclipic accuracy instead of uniform familiar month-lengths
> This email originated from outside ECU.
> ...and surely any planetarium software, such as those mentioned by Litmus, will give you ecliptic longitudes. And many or most would probably give you the time of the Sun's arrival at any ecliptic-longitude.
> 6 Tu
> Aquarius 9th
> January 28th, 2020
> On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 12:23 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
> If you meant my source for the astronomical ecliptic-month lengths, I've begun looking for it, but haven't yet found it. But any astrologer could direct you to a source.
> But I point out that my calendrical ecliptic-month lengths are identical to those of the Indian National Calendar, other than their giving the extra day to Capricorn instead of to Sagittarius. They give it to Capricorn in order to keep all the calendrical month lengths to 30 and 31 days (and Capricorn is the ecliptic-month that's 2nd closest to rounding up instead of down).
> 6 Tu
> Aquarius 9th
> January 28th, 2020
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of CALNDR-L Digest - 29 Jan 2020 to 30 Jan 2020 (#2020-21)
> **************************************************************