Re: Aligning Julian & Georgian calendars Re: Georgian Calendar Month Names

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Re: Aligning Julian & Georgian calendars Re: Georgian Calendar Month Names

Karl Palmen

Dear Phil, Brij and Calendar People


My note was about an early calendar reform proposed in British territories while they were still on the Julian Calendar. Hence comparing the months with Julian Calendar namesakes was relevant.

The original proposal did call the months 1st month, 2nd month, etc. , but the proposer, expected existing month names might be used instead and provided a name for one month that would otherwise be unnamed (Georgy). I pointed out that the best place for Georgy would be at the start of the year, assuming the remaining months are named January to December in the normal order.


If the Gregorian calendar had already been adopted and people were used to the positions of the Gregorian months in the seasons, then the best place for Georgy would be the 3rd month between February and March and then looking back at the Roman calendar, this gave rise to another name for it.






From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil De Rosa
Sent: 17 August 2016 02:42
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Aligning Julian & Gregorian calendars Re: Georgian Calendar Month Names


Hi Brij and all.  I think we have a problem in that this list communicates in English, can’t be helped of course not having an International language, and so we use English terminology for the names of the months. 


I feel that no matter the number of months in a finally accepted universal World calendar year, whether 12 or 13,  we must consider adopting numerical names for the months which makes it a little easier to translate or recognize. 


We so often write the date like today’s date as so; 2016-08-16 or 16-08-2016.  What’s not simpler than calling it the Eighth month rather than August, or calling the Ninth, Tenth, Eleventh, and Twelfth months which they are rather than September, October, November, and December which are numerically wrong.


If we are going to create one common calendar for World usage, still keeping in place all national and religious calendars, let’s make it as simple as possible in this ever growing complex world of ours.


Phil De Rosa


Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2016 1:04 PM

Subject: Aligning Julian & Gregorian calendars Re: Georgian Calendar Month Names


Karl, sirs:

Yes, this is not my cup of tea; but if an attempt is underway to align Julian calendar with Modified Gregorian calendar: or any other candidate for a possible 'World calendar', is certainly a good idea. Moreso, other National/Regional calendars shall also be a need for 'Any New Approach' for the World calendar to be!

Why change month names of the current Gregorian calendar, sirs?

Regards ,

Brij Bhushan (metric) Vij

Tuesday, 2016 August 16H13:05(decimal)

Sent from my iPhone

On Aug 16, 2016, at 5:09 AM, Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Calendar People


Concerning the Georgian Calendars at the earlier version names its months 1st month, 2nd month, etc., but concedes that Julian month names could be used and for such a case suggest the name of Georgy for the 13th month (-y as in July?). However if Georgy were the first month, the other months would be nearer their Julian Calendar namesakes and I show which Julian Calendar years that the month would be entirely within its Julian calendar namesake for both leap and common years.


The columns are

numerical month name,

conservative month name,

Julian calendar start date of month in common years of (1713/1848 CE), 

dates the month must begin in a common year to occur within its namesake in both leap years and common years,

CE year-range within which the month occurs within its Julian Calendar namesake for both leap years and common years.


1st month  Georgy    Dec 11

2nd month  January   Jan 8     Jan 1-4   2241/2768

3rd month  February  Feb 5     Feb 1     2241/2372

4th month  March     Mar 5     Mar 2-4   1845/2240

5th month  April     Apr 2     Apr 2-3   1581/1844

6th month  May       Apr 30    May 2-4   1185/1580

7th month  June      May 28    Jun 2-3   0921/1184

8th month  July      Jun 25    Jul 2-4   0525/0920

9th month  August    Jul 23    Aug 2-4   0129/0524

10th month September Aug 20    Sep 2-3   -0135/0128

11th month October   Sep 17    Oct 2-4   -0531/-0136

12th month November  Oct 15    Nov 2-3   -0795/-0532

13th month December  Nov 12    Dec 2-4   -1191/-0796


If Georgy were placed at the end of the year these year ranges would be 28*132=3696 years earlier. The ranges are specified in format of the draft extension of ISO8601 at


A closer correspondence to the Julian Calendar namesakes could be achieved by naming the first month December, 2nd month January and placing Georgy at the 10th month between August and September. The ranges for September to November would be 3696 years later.


If it were desired to place the months as near to their Gregorian namesakes as possible, the optimum place for Georgy would be as 3rd month between February and March. In which case it could be named Mercedony (anglicised Mercedonius) pronounced with the stress on the second ‘e’ and the ‘o’ may be silent.


I expect Walter Ziobro would have his own ideas for naming the months.