Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
9 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
Dear Calendar People

On June 9 this year in the Wikipedia article
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar
the leap day was changed from the day between June and the new month (Sol or Midi) to the last day of the year.

The article
http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/eastman.html
makes it clear that the leap day occurs after June
However in the older Positivist calendar the leap day is at indeed the end of the year
http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/pos-cal.html (convert December 31 Leap Year).

Does any calendar person know why the leap day after June was chosen or any thing else about choice of leap days in such calendars?

Karl

08(04(23
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

Irv Bromberg
On Jun 19, 2006, at 07:36, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:

> On June 9 this year in the Wikipedia article
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar
> the leap day was changed from the day between June and the new month
> (Sol or Midi) to the last day of the year.
>
> The article
> http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/eastman.html
> makes it clear that the leap day occurs after June
> However in the older Positivist calendar the leap day is at indeed the
> end of the year
> http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/pos-cal.html (convert December 31
> Leap Year).
>
> Does any calendar person know why the leap day after June was chosen
> or any thing else about choice of leap days in such calendars?

Karl:

I had nothing to do with making the changes, nor any other changes in
Wiki -- since their system reverts everything that I modify, I stopped
trying long ago.

However I will point out that putting leap days, null days, leap weeks,
etc. at the end of the year always simplifies calendar arithmetic
because it ensures that the ordinal day numbers an ordinal week numbers
of all permanent dates are permanently fixed.  For calendars that
contain null days outside of the regular 7-day week, collecting all of
those days at the end of the year simplifies determining the weekday of
any date, because for all permanent dates it is simply based on the
ordinal day number of the year, modulo 7.

On the original 13-month calendar, today is Sol 2, and since this year
is not a leap year, today's date is the same even if the leap day would
be at the end of the year.

-- Irv Bromberg, Toronto, Ontario

<http://www.sym454.org/>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
Dear Irv and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Irv Bromberg
Sent: 19 June 2006 21:43
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar


On Jun 19, 2006, at 07:36, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:

> On June 9 this year in the Wikipedia article
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar
> the leap day was changed from the day between June and the new month
> (Sol or Midi) to the last day of the year.
>
> The article
> http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/eastman.html
> makes it clear that the leap day occurs after June
> However in the older Positivist calendar the leap day is at indeed the
> end of the year
> http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/pos-cal.html (convert December 31
> Leap Year).
>
> Does any calendar person know why the leap day after June was chosen
> or any thing else about choice of leap days in such calendars?

Karl:

I had nothing to do with making the changes, nor any other changes in
Wiki -- since their system reverts everything that I modify, I stopped
trying long ago.

KARL ASKS: Have you registered?

However I will point out that putting leap days, null days, leap weeks,
etc. at the end of the year always simplifies calendar arithmetic
because it ensures that the ordinal day numbers an ordinal week numbers
of all permanent dates are permanently fixed.  For calendars that
contain null days outside of the regular 7-day week, collecting all of
those days at the end of the year simplifies determining the weekday of
any date, because for all permanent dates it is simply based on the
ordinal day number of the year, modulo 7.

KARL SAYS: Agreed. I'm wondering why this was apparently not done for the Cotsworth International Fixed Calendar. Does anyone know more about the International fixed calendar and the choice of its leap day?
If not, I'll assume that
http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/eastman.html
is correct in placing the leap day between June and the new month.

Another possibility is to have the leap day at the end of the second month then only Gregorian dates (Feb 26, 27, 28) would vary in the new calendar.

IRV CONTINUES:
On the original 13-month calendar, today is Sol 2, and since this year
is not a leap year, today's date is the same even if the leap day would
be at the end of the year.

KARL SAYS:
It depends on what you mean by today's date in a leap year. If you mean June 19, then June 19 would be the 170th day of a common year or the 171st day of a leap year and so Sol 2 in a common year or Sol 3 in a leap year. So Irv's assertion would be false. Irv's assertion would be correct if he meant today as the 170th day of the year.

Karl

08(04(23 till noon
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
In reply to this post by Irv Bromberg
Dear Irv and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Irv Bromberg
Sent: 19 June 2006 21:43
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar


On Jun 19, 2006, at 07:36, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:

> On June 9 this year in the Wikipedia article
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar
> the leap day was changed from the day between June and the new month
> (Sol or Midi) to the last day of the year.
>
> The article
> http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/eastman.html
> makes it clear that the leap day occurs after June
> However in the older Positivist calendar the leap day is at indeed the
> end of the year
> http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/pos-cal.html (convert December 31
> Leap Year).
>
> Does any calendar person know why the leap day after June was chosen
> or any thing else about choice of leap days in such calendars?

Karl:

I had nothing to do with making the changes, nor any other changes in
Wiki -- since their system reverts everything that I modify, I stopped
trying long ago.

However I will point out that putting leap days, null days, leap weeks,
etc. at the end of the year always simplifies calendar arithmetic
because it ensures that the ordinal day numbers an ordinal week numbers
of all permanent dates are permanently fixed.  For calendars that
contain null days outside of the regular 7-day week, collecting all of
those days at the end of the year simplifies determining the weekday of
any date, because for all permanent dates it is simply based on the
ordinal day number of the year, modulo 7.

KARL SAYS:
It also makes things a little simpler for my Yerm Calendar or any lunar calendar that makes uses of the 49-month cycle of 1447 days:

International fixed calendar
01: 1996-12-07 Sat    02: 1998-04-03 Tue    03: 1999-08-28 Sat
04: 2000-11-21 Sat    05: 2002-03-17 Tue    06: 2003-08-14 Sat
07: 2004-11-07 Sat    08: 2006-03-03 Tue    09: 2007-07-28 Sat
10: 2008-10-21 Sat    11: 2010-02-17 Tue    12: 2011-07-14 Sat
13: 2012-10-07 Sat    14: 2014-02-03 Tue    15: 2015-06-28 Sat
16: 2016-09-21 Sat    17: 2018-01-17 Tue    18: 2019-06-14 Sat
19: 2020-09-07 Sat    20: 2022-01-03 Tue    21: 2023-05-28 Sat
22: 2024-08-21 Sat    23: 2025-13-18 Wed    24: 2027-05-14 Sat
25: 2028-08-07 Sat    
28: 2032-07-21 Sat
31: 2036-07-07 Sat
34: 2040-06-22 Sun
37: 2044-06-08 Sun
40: 2048-05-22 Sun

Positivist Calendar (or Raventos Calendar)
01: 1996-12-08 Mon    02: 1998-04-03 Wed    03: 1999-08-28 Sun
04: 2000-11-22 Mon    05: 2002-03-17 Wed    06: 2003-08-14 Sun
07: 2004-11-08 Mon    08: 2006-03-03 Wed    09: 2007-07-28 Sun
10: 2008-10-22 Mon    11: 2010-02-17 Wed    12: 2011-07-14 Sun
13: 2012-10-08 Mon    14: 2014-02-03 Wed    15: 2015-06-28 Sun
16: 2016-09-22 Mon    17: 2018-01-17 Wed    18: 2019-06-14 Sun
19: 2020-09-08 Mon    20: 2022-01-03 Wed    21: 2023-05-28 Sun
22: 2024-08-22 Mon    23: 2025-13-18 Thu    24: 2027-05-14 Sun
25: 2028-08-08 Mon    
28: 2032-07-22 Mon
31: 2036-07-08 Mon
34: 2040-06-22 Mon
37: 2044-06-08 Mon
40: 2048-05-22 Mon

See
http://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/yerm1.htm#new

Karl

08(04(24
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

Irv Bromberg
In reply to this post by Palmen, KEV (Karl)
On Jun 20, 2006, at 04:14, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:

> IRV CONTINUES:
> On the original 13-month calendar, today is Sol 2, and since this year
> is not a leap year, today's date is the same even if the leap day would
> be at the end of the year.
>
> KARL SAYS:
> It depends on what you mean by today's date in a leap year. If you
> mean June 19, then June 19 would be the 170th day of a common year or
> the 171st day of a leap year and so Sol 2 in a common year or Sol 3 in
> a leap year. So Irv's assertion would be false. Irv's assertion would
> be correct if he meant today as the 170th day of the year.

Irv replies:

I don't understand your correction.

I wrote my comment on Gregorian June 19th, 2006, which was the 170th
day of the Gregorian year, and Sol 2, 2006 on the original 13-Month
Calendar, and it was also the 170th day of the 13-Month Calendar.

Year 2006 is NOT a leap year on either the Gregorian or 13-Month
calendar.  The day before the first of Sol this year, therefore, was
June 28th on the 13-Month Calendar, thus there is no leap day this
year, so it doesn't matter if one specifies the leap day as occurring
after June or after December, either way it was Sol 2, 2006.

My currently posted version of Kalendis demonstrates The 13-Month
Calendar and The World Calendar in their original forms, modified
versions that have the leap day at the end of the year, and modified
versions that have a leap WEEK at the end of the year and zero NULL
days.  Anybody who would like to play with those variants should
download that version of Kalendis as soon as possible, because the new
version that I am about to post will no longer support calendars with
any NULL days.

-- Irv Bromberg, Toronto, Canada

<http://www.sym454.org/>
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

Palmen, KEV (Karl)
Dear Irv and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Irv Bromberg
Sent: 21 June 2006 01:06
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar


On Jun 20, 2006, at 04:14, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:

> IRV CONTINUES:
> On the original 13-month calendar, today is Sol 2, and since this year
> is not a leap year, today's date is the same even if the leap day would
> be at the end of the year.
>
> KARL SAYS:
> It depends on what you mean by today's date in a leap year. If you
> mean June 19, then June 19 would be the 170th day of a common year or
> the 171st day of a leap year and so Sol 2 in a common year or Sol 3 in
> a leap year. So Irv's assertion would be false. Irv's assertion would
> be correct if he meant today as the 170th day of the year.

Irv replies:

I don't understand your correction.

KARL SAYS:
Irv said "today's date is the same even if the leap day would
be at the end of the year."

I took that to mean "today's date is the same even if it were a leap year and the leap day were at the end of the year."

Then Irv would need to be explicit about what is meant by 'the same' in this context.

Karl

08(04(24 till noon
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

Brij Bhushan Vij
In reply to this post by Palmen, KEV (Karl)
Karl, Irv group:
>It also makes things a little simpler for my Yerm Calendar or any lunar
>calendar
>that makes uses of the 49-month cycle of 1447 days:
This may appear 'irrelevant' but I had exchanged some mails with respect to
using 19-year cycle in link with my 47-lunation (1388 days) vs 49-lunation
(1447 days) plan.
Regards,
Brij Bhushan Vij
(Tuesday, Kali 5107-W10-02)/265+D-173 (Wednesday, 2006 June
21H11:27(decimal) ET
Aa Nau Bhadra Kritvo Yantu Vishwatah -Rg Veda
Jan:31; Feb:29; Mar:31; Apr:30; May:31; Jun:30
Jul:30; Aug:31; Sep:30; Oct:31; Nov:30; Dec:30
(365th day of Year is World Day)
******As per Kali V-GRhymeCalendaar*****
"Koi bhi cheshtha vayarth nahin hoti, purshaarth karne mein hai"
Contact # 001(201)675-8548


>From: "Palmen, KEV (Karl)" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List              
><[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 13:42:05 +0100
>
>Dear Irv and Calendar People
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
>[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Irv Bromberg
>Sent: 19 June 2006 21:43
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar
>
>
>On Jun 19, 2006, at 07:36, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:
> > On June 9 this year in the Wikipedia article
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar
> > the leap day was changed from the day between June and the new month
> > (Sol or Midi) to the last day of the year.
> >
> > The article
> > http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/eastman.html
> > makes it clear that the leap day occurs after June
> > However in the older Positivist calendar the leap day is at indeed the
> > end of the year
> > http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/pos-cal.html (convert December 31
> > Leap Year).
> >
> > Does any calendar person know why the leap day after June was chosen
> > or any thing else about choice of leap days in such calendars?
>
>Karl:
>
>I had nothing to do with making the changes, nor any other changes in
>Wiki -- since their system reverts everything that I modify, I stopped
>trying long ago.
>
>However I will point out that putting leap days, null days, leap weeks,
>etc. at the end of the year always simplifies calendar arithmetic
>because it ensures that the ordinal day numbers an ordinal week numbers
>of all permanent dates are permanently fixed.  For calendars that
>contain null days outside of the regular 7-day week, collecting all of
>those days at the end of the year simplifies determining the weekday of
>any date, because for all permanent dates it is simply based on the
>ordinal day number of the year, modulo 7.
>
>KARL SAYS:
>It also makes things a little simpler for my Yerm Calendar or any lunar
>calendar that makes uses of the 49-month cycle of 1447 days:
>
>International fixed calendar
>01: 1996-12-07 Sat    02: 1998-04-03 Tue    03: 1999-08-28 Sat
>04: 2000-11-21 Sat    05: 2002-03-17 Tue    06: 2003-08-14 Sat
>07: 2004-11-07 Sat    08: 2006-03-03 Tue    09: 2007-07-28 Sat
>10: 2008-10-21 Sat    11: 2010-02-17 Tue    12: 2011-07-14 Sat
>13: 2012-10-07 Sat    14: 2014-02-03 Tue    15: 2015-06-28 Sat
>16: 2016-09-21 Sat    17: 2018-01-17 Tue    18: 2019-06-14 Sat
>19: 2020-09-07 Sat    20: 2022-01-03 Tue    21: 2023-05-28 Sat
>22: 2024-08-21 Sat    23: 2025-13-18 Wed    24: 2027-05-14 Sat
>25: 2028-08-07 Sat
>28: 2032-07-21 Sat
>31: 2036-07-07 Sat
>34: 2040-06-22 Sun
>37: 2044-06-08 Sun
>40: 2048-05-22 Sun
>
>Positivist Calendar (or Raventos Calendar)
>01: 1996-12-08 Mon    02: 1998-04-03 Wed    03: 1999-08-28 Sun
>04: 2000-11-22 Mon    05: 2002-03-17 Wed    06: 2003-08-14 Sun
>07: 2004-11-08 Mon    08: 2006-03-03 Wed    09: 2007-07-28 Sun
>10: 2008-10-22 Mon    11: 2010-02-17 Wed    12: 2011-07-14 Sun
>13: 2012-10-08 Mon    14: 2014-02-03 Wed    15: 2015-06-28 Sun
>16: 2016-09-22 Mon    17: 2018-01-17 Wed    18: 2019-06-14 Sun
>19: 2020-09-08 Mon    20: 2022-01-03 Wed    21: 2023-05-28 Sun
>22: 2024-08-22 Mon    23: 2025-13-18 Thu    24: 2027-05-14 Sun
>25: 2028-08-08 Mon
>28: 2032-07-22 Mon
>31: 2036-07-08 Mon
>34: 2040-06-22 Mon
>37: 2044-06-08 Mon
>40: 2048-05-22 Mon
>
>See
>http://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/yerm1.htm#new
>
>Karl
>
>08(04(24
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Extra Day Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

Brij Bhushan Vij
In reply to this post by Palmen, KEV (Karl)
Karl, Irv & CC:
>> > Does any calendar person know why the leap day after June was chosen
> > or any thing else about choice of leap days in such calendars?
I attempted to ADD an EXTRA day to the format of my 364-d YEAR, while
discussing the Tropico-Sidereal Year, to be used for civil purpose, as at:
http://www.brijvij.com/TS-WrldCal-rev..doc
I placed this EXTRA day as Leap day to account the 366th day in *Sidereal
count of Days*, in addition to 365th day (December 31 - placed outside of
the Year). It does surprise that due credit was ignored and my mail was NOT
nabbled, if I recall.
Regards,
Brij Bhushan Vij
(Tuesday, Kali 5107-W10-02)/265+D-173 (Wednesday, 2006 June
21H11:66(decimal) ET
Aa Nau Bhadra Kritvo Yantu Vishwatah -Rg Veda
Jan:31; Feb:29; Mar:31; Apr:30; May:31; Jun:30
Jul:30; Aug:31; Sep:30; Oct:31; Nov:30; Dec:30
(365th day of Year is World Day)
******As per Kali V-GRhymeCalendaar*****
"Koi bhi cheshtha vayarth nahin hoti, purshaarth karne mein hai"
Contact # 001(201)675-8548


>From: "Palmen, KEV (Karl)" <[hidden email]>
>Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List              
><[hidden email]>
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar
>Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2006 09:14:23 +0100
>
>Dear Irv and Calendar People
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List
>[mailto:[hidden email]]On Behalf Of Irv Bromberg
>Sent: 19 June 2006 21:43
>To: [hidden email]
>Subject: Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar
>
>
>On Jun 19, 2006, at 07:36, Palmen, KEV (Karl) wrote:
> > On June 9 this year in the Wikipedia article
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar
> > the leap day was changed from the day between June and the new month
> > (Sol or Midi) to the last day of the year.
> >
> > The article
> > http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/eastman.html
> > makes it clear that the leap day occurs after June
> > However in the older Positivist calendar the leap day is at indeed the
> > end of the year
> > http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/pos-cal.html (convert December 31
> > Leap Year).
> >
> > Does any calendar person know why the leap day after June was chosen
> > or any thing else about choice of leap days in such calendars?
>
>Karl:
>
>I had nothing to do with making the changes, nor any other changes in
>Wiki -- since their system reverts everything that I modify, I stopped
>trying long ago.
>
>KARL ASKS: Have you registered?
>
>However I will point out that putting leap days, null days, leap weeks,
>etc. at the end of the year always simplifies calendar arithmetic
>because it ensures that the ordinal day numbers an ordinal week numbers
>of all permanent dates are permanently fixed.  For calendars that
>contain null days outside of the regular 7-day week, collecting all of
>those days at the end of the year simplifies determining the weekday of
>any date, because for all permanent dates it is simply based on the
>ordinal day number of the year, modulo 7.
>
>KARL SAYS: Agreed. I'm wondering why this was apparently not done for the
>Cotsworth International Fixed Calendar. Does anyone know more about the
>International fixed calendar and the choice of its leap day?
>If not, I'll assume that
>http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/eastman.html
>is correct in placing the leap day between June and the new month.
>
>Another possibility is to have the leap day at the end of the second month
>then only Gregorian dates (Feb 26, 27, 28) would vary in the new calendar.
>
>IRV CONTINUES:
>On the original 13-month calendar, today is Sol 2, and since this year
>is not a leap year, today's date is the same even if the leap day would
>be at the end of the year.
>
>KARL SAYS:
>It depends on what you mean by today's date in a leap year. If you mean
>June 19, then June 19 would be the 170th day of a common year or the 171st
>day of a leap year and so Sol 2 in a common year or Sol 3 in a leap year.
>So Irv's assertion would be false. Irv's assertion would be correct if he
>meant today as the 170th day of the year.
>
>Karl
>
>08(04(23 till noon
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Extra Day Re: Leap Day in International Fixed Calendar

VictorEngel
Dear Brij,

> the Year). It does surprise that due credit was ignored and
> my mail was NOT
> nabbled, if I recall.

With nabble, posts are rated. If you want to see all message, change the
rating to 1. Otherwise, some messages will be filtered from your view. My
guess is that the post you refer to was rated a 1, so it doesn't appear in
the default listing, which lists posts rated 2 or higher.

Victor