Introduction.

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
16 messages Options
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Introduction.

Jamison Painter
That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

On Apr 8, 2018 2:00 PM, "Jamison Painter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
It seems to me that most of us know that the Gregorian Calendar is a reform of the Julian Calendar, which itself  was a reform of the Roman Calendar.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 1:44 PM Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Michael needs to look up the difference between a noun phrase and a proper noun.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
It is a proper noun

Victor needs to look up the difference between a noun and a noun-phrase.

 
, i. e., the name of THE Gregorian calendar. There's no need to drag the Romans into it. 

...you mean other than the fact that they're the origin of the "Gregorian Calendar" 's months?  :D

 I'm not trying to legislate that you not be allowed to say "Gregorian Calendar."

I realize that following tradition is very, very important to some people.But your hallowed and sacrosanct tradition of calling it the "Gregorian Calendar", when only part of it is Gregorian, is silly.

And that worship of tradition is self-contradictory too:  The Roman month-system has presumably been kept partly due to tradition (but maybe just inertia and laziness).  But, if you value that tradition, then why do you want to forbid mentioning the Roman contribution, the Roman origin of the months. 

So we keep the Roman month-system because we value tradition so much, but we also have a tradition of not referring to that Roman origin in the calendar's name?

Maybe I should apologize for offending the traditional sensibilities of some very devoted followers of tradition.

When I refer to the current universal civil calendar, I call it by its month-system and its leapyear-system. No one's saying that you have to.

Yes, several have pointed out how common the "Gregorian Calendar" usage is. Sorry, but "common" isn't the same as "apt".

As a name, "Gregorian Calendar" is less apt, less descriptive, and less useful than "Roman-Gregorian Calendar". "Gregorian Calendar"  implies something, an origin, that isn't true. And, thereby, it probably misleads some people regarding the matter of the calendar's origin.

But, as I said, I'm not saying that you should have to change your usage. This silly quibble began when Karl started objecting to my use of "Roman-Gregorian Calendar".

Now, have we all had our say?

Michael Ossipoff

 
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Michael seems to be using "Gregorian" as an adjective. Karl, like almost everyone else in the world, is using "Gregorian Calendar" as a proper noun.


Incorrect. "Gregorian Calendar" is a noun-phrase, not a noun.

But of course a noun-phrase can be, and often is, used as a noun.

Michael Ossipoff


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Typo:

I added, to the text quoted below, the phrase in brackets.

It [The Roman Calendar now in use] is one of several month systems used by the Romans.

When I said "The Roman Calendar now in use", I meant "The Roman month-system now in use".

Michael Ossipoff


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:45 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Michael and Calendar People

 

Three quick answers:

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Ossipoff
Sent: 06 April 2018 16:03
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Reply to Karl, regarding ISO WeekDate, the obvious best calendar-reform proposal.


KARL REPLIES: It [The Roman Calendar now in use] is one of several month systems used by the Romans. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar .


Yes, and any one of those several could be called "a Roman month-system".  I didn't use "a". I used "the". That means that I was referring to something that there's only one of.

Of those several month-systems that the Romans used at different time, guess which one is the Roman month-system.

It's the one, the final one, that they eventually arrived at and didn't replace.    ...the only one remaining in use.

What Karl is missing is that, at any time, there's only one Roman month-system that can be called "the Roman month-system".

Each of several month-systems that was a Roman month-system, stopped being "the Roman month system" as soon as, in Roman use, it was replaced by a new Roman month-system.

Is there a Roman month-system that wasn't so replaced? Yes. We're using it now.





.

It's usually erroneously called "the Gregorian Calendar', even though only its leapyear-rule, and not its year-division system, is Gregorian.

KARL REPLIES: I disagree.


Karl thinks that our civil calendar's year-division system, month-system, is Gregorian in origin.

You post in purple, to distinguish your posts from those of other people. And then, often that results in subsequent lines likewise appearing in purple, and so I have to change the color of my own text back to black.
 

Michael Ossipoff






Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Brij-Gregorian Modification Re: Introduction.

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Jamison Painter list:
I assume the list has not forgotten my initial inputs of The Mettic Calendar Year (1971-1973)....till I decided to suspend my input, like French Republican Calendar that died its “natural death”, the format of which was:
image1.jpeg
   I stuck with this format till around 1990’s but was forced to change for a better option to modify the current Gregorian calendar by shifting July 31 to 2nd month i.e.February as Feb.29(all years); and keeping the World Peace Day (Dec.31) and Leap Day per my div.4/skip128th Years - outside of the calendar FORMAT, getting improved MEAN Year =(365+31/128)=365.2421875 days- this would need to ammend the ‘centurion Leap Day’ Rule, closer to Actual Average Astronomers’ Mean Year. image2.jpeg
The calendar could start in continuation, from the nearest Monday - especially after mid-night of Friday/Saturday on skipping 2 1/2 days now accumulated, needing correction after the Papal Bull of 1582:
image3.jpeg
Such a date was proposed 2012 December 20/21 (the Dooms Day), linking End of Mayan Calendar Era.
I may highly recommend you to assess my discussion posts since mid-2002 when I joined this list- and lay my thought/works for public examination. History has given humanity a chance: we can brick-bat and lose the opportunity or make use of this. I believe, religious festivities can be plugged & fixed closest to ‘week-ends’ if desired; since these are generally linked to LUNAR calculations. My 896-year cycle/327257 days/11082 moons; or when split in its TWO halves can achieve desired results;
image4.jpeg
Regards,
Ex-Flt Lt Brij Bhusgan VIJ, Author
Brij-Gregorian Midifued Calendar 
Sunday, 2018 April 08H16:38(decimal)

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2018, at 3:28 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

On Apr 8, 2018 2:00 PM, "Jamison Painter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
It seems to me that most of us know that the Gregorian Calendar is a reform of the Julian Calendar, which itself  was a reform of the Roman Calendar.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 1:44 PM Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Michael needs to look up the difference between a noun phrase and a proper noun.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
It is a proper noun

Victor needs to look up the difference between a noun and a noun-phrase.

 
, i. e., the name of THE Gregorian calendar. There's no need to drag the Romans into it. 

...you mean other than the fact that they're the origin of the "Gregorian Calendar" 's months?  :D

 I'm not trying to legislate that you not be allowed to say "Gregorian Calendar."

I realize that following tradition is very, very important to some people.But your hallowed and sacrosanct tradition of calling it the "Gregorian Calendar", when only part of it is Gregorian, is silly.

And that worship of tradition is self-contradictory too:  The Roman month-system has presumably been kept partly due to tradition (but maybe just inertia and laziness).  But, if you value that tradition, then why do you want to forbid mentioning the Roman contribution, the Roman origin of the months. 

So we keep the Roman month-system because we value tradition so much, but we also have a tradition of not referring to that Roman origin in the calendar's name?

Maybe I should apologize for offending the traditional sensibilities of some very devoted followers of tradition.

When I refer to the current universal civil calendar, I call it by its month-system and its leapyear-system. No one's saying that you have to.

Yes, several have pointed out how common the "Gregorian Calendar" usage is. Sorry, but "common" isn't the same as "apt".

As a name, "Gregorian Calendar" is less apt, less descriptive, and less useful than "Roman-Gregorian Calendar". "Gregorian Calendar"  implies something, an origin, that isn't true. And, thereby, it probably misleads some people regarding the matter of the calendar's origin.

But, as I said, I'm not saying that you should have to change your usage. This silly quibble began when Karl started objecting to my use of "Roman-Gregorian Calendar".

Now, have we all had our say?

Michael Ossipoff

 
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Michael seems to be using "Gregorian" as an adjective. Karl, like almost everyone else in the world, is using "Gregorian Calendar" as a proper noun.


Incorrect. "Gregorian Calendar" is a noun-phrase, not a noun.

But of course a noun-phrase can be, and often is, used as a noun.

Michael Ossipoff


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Typo:

I added, to the text quoted below, the phrase in brackets.

It [The Roman Calendar now in use] is one of several month systems used by the Romans.

When I said "The Roman Calendar now in use", I meant "The Roman month-system now in use".

Michael Ossipoff


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:45 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Michael and Calendar People

 

Three quick answers:

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Ossipoff
Sent: 06 April 2018 16:03
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Reply to Karl, regarding ISO WeekDate, the obvious best calendar-reform proposal.


KARL REPLIES: It [The Roman Calendar now in use] is one of several month systems used by the Romans. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar .


Yes, and any one of those several could be called "a Roman month-system".  I didn't use "a". I used "the". That means that I was referring to something that there's only one of.

Of those several month-systems that the Romans used at different time, guess which one is the Roman month-system.

It's the one, the final one, that they eventually arrived at and didn't replace.    ...the only one remaining in use.

What Karl is missing is that, at any time, there's only one Roman month-system that can be called "the Roman month-system".

Each of several month-systems that was a Roman month-system, stopped being "the Roman month system" as soon as, in Roman use, it was replaced by a new Roman month-system.

Is there a Roman month-system that wasn't so replaced? Yes. We're using it now.





.

It's usually erroneously called "the Gregorian Calendar', even though only its leapyear-rule, and not its year-division system, is Gregorian.

KARL REPLIES: I disagree.


Karl thinks that our civil calendar's year-division system, month-system, is Gregorian in origin.

You post in purple, to distinguish your posts from those of other people. And then, often that results in subsequent lines likewise appearing in purple, and so I have to change the color of my own text back to black.
 

Michael Ossipoff






Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Brij-Gregorian Modification Re: Introduction.

Jamison Painter
Well, the point of the French Calendar was to eliminate religious references. Although I am a believer myself, and attend church most weeks, I personally favour French Secularism. I think religions should be taxed, like businesses, and I favour the French Calendar as a way of eliminating religious favourtism,

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 3:24 PM Brij Bhushan metric VIJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
Jamison Painter list:
I assume the list has not forgotten my initial inputs of The Mettic Calendar Year (1971-1973)....till I decided to suspend my input, like French Republican Calendar that died its “natural death”, the format of which was:

   I stuck with this format till around 1990’s but was forced to change for a better option to modify the current Gregorian calendar by shifting July 31 to 2nd month i.e.February as Feb.29(all years); and keeping the World Peace Day (Dec.31) and Leap Day per my div.4/skip128th Years - outside of the calendar FORMAT, getting improved MEAN Year =(365+31/128)=365.2421875 days- this would need to ammend the ‘centurion Leap Day’ Rule, closer to Actual Average Astronomers’ Mean Year. 
The calendar could start in continuation, from the nearest Monday - especially after mid-night of Friday/Saturday on skipping 2 1/2 days now accumulated, needing correction after the Papal Bull of 1582:

Such a date was proposed 2012 December 20/21 (the Dooms Day), linking End of Mayan Calendar Era.
I may highly recommend you to assess my discussion posts since mid-2002 when I joined this list- and lay my thought/works for public examination. History has given humanity a chance: we can brick-bat and lose the opportunity or make use of this. I believe, religious festivities can be plugged & fixed closest to ‘week-ends’ if desired; since these are generally linked to LUNAR calculations. My 896-year cycle/327257 days/11082 moons; or when split in its TWO halves can achieve desired results;

Regards,
Ex-Flt Lt Brij Bhusgan VIJ, Author
Brij-Gregorian Midifued Calendar 
Sunday, 2018 April 08H16:38(decimal)

Sent from my iPhone

On Apr 8, 2018, at 3:28 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

On Apr 8, 2018 2:00 PM, "Jamison Painter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
It seems to me that most of us know that the Gregorian Calendar is a reform of the Julian Calendar, which itself  was a reform of the Roman Calendar.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 1:44 PM Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Michael needs to look up the difference between a noun phrase and a proper noun.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
It is a proper noun

Victor needs to look up the difference between a noun and a noun-phrase.

 
, i. e., the name of THE Gregorian calendar. There's no need to drag the Romans into it. 

...you mean other than the fact that they're the origin of the "Gregorian Calendar" 's months?  :D

 I'm not trying to legislate that you not be allowed to say "Gregorian Calendar."

I realize that following tradition is very, very important to some people.But your hallowed and sacrosanct tradition of calling it the "Gregorian Calendar", when only part of it is Gregorian, is silly.

And that worship of tradition is self-contradictory too:  The Roman month-system has presumably been kept partly due to tradition (but maybe just inertia and laziness).  But, if you value that tradition, then why do you want to forbid mentioning the Roman contribution, the Roman origin of the months. 

So we keep the Roman month-system because we value tradition so much, but we also have a tradition of not referring to that Roman origin in the calendar's name?

Maybe I should apologize for offending the traditional sensibilities of some very devoted followers of tradition.

When I refer to the current universal civil calendar, I call it by its month-system and its leapyear-system. No one's saying that you have to.

Yes, several have pointed out how common the "Gregorian Calendar" usage is. Sorry, but "common" isn't the same as "apt".

As a name, "Gregorian Calendar" is less apt, less descriptive, and less useful than "Roman-Gregorian Calendar". "Gregorian Calendar"  implies something, an origin, that isn't true. And, thereby, it probably misleads some people regarding the matter of the calendar's origin.

But, as I said, I'm not saying that you should have to change your usage. This silly quibble began when Karl started objecting to my use of "Roman-Gregorian Calendar".

Now, have we all had our say?

Michael Ossipoff

 
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Michael seems to be using "Gregorian" as an adjective. Karl, like almost everyone else in the world, is using "Gregorian Calendar" as a proper noun.


Incorrect. "Gregorian Calendar" is a noun-phrase, not a noun.

But of course a noun-phrase can be, and often is, used as a noun.

Michael Ossipoff


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Typo:

I added, to the text quoted below, the phrase in brackets.

It [The Roman Calendar now in use] is one of several month systems used by the Romans.

When I said "The Roman Calendar now in use", I meant "The Roman month-system now in use".

Michael Ossipoff


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:45 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Michael and Calendar People

 

Three quick answers:

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Ossipoff
Sent: 06 April 2018 16:03
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Reply to Karl, regarding ISO WeekDate, the obvious best calendar-reform proposal.


KARL REPLIES: It [The Roman Calendar now in use] is one of several month systems used by the Romans. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar .


Yes, and any one of those several could be called "a Roman month-system".  I didn't use "a". I used "the". That means that I was referring to something that there's only one of.

Of those several month-systems that the Romans used at different time, guess which one is the Roman month-system.

It's the one, the final one, that they eventually arrived at and didn't replace.    ...the only one remaining in use.

What Karl is missing is that, at any time, there's only one Roman month-system that can be called "the Roman month-system".

Each of several month-systems that was a Roman month-system, stopped being "the Roman month system" as soon as, in Roman use, it was replaced by a new Roman month-system.

Is there a Roman month-system that wasn't so replaced? Yes. We're using it now.





.

It's usually erroneously called "the Gregorian Calendar', even though only its leapyear-rule, and not its year-division system, is Gregorian.

KARL REPLIES: I disagree.


Karl thinks that our civil calendar's year-division system, month-system, is Gregorian in origin.

You post in purple, to distinguish your posts from those of other people. And then, often that results in subsequent lines likewise appearing in purple, and so I have to change the color of my own text back to black.
 

Michael Ossipoff







image4.jpeg (452K) Download Attachment
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Sepp Rothwangl
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter

Jamison, 
welcome here!

The Gregorian is a syncretism of several ancient astrological, religious and political  worldviews:
Week: astrological Babylonian
Start of Year: political Roman
Month: Roman
Date of years (A.D.). Apocayptic Christian 

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.944
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com

Am 08.04.2018 um 21:28 schrieb Jamison Painter <[hidden email]>:

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

On Apr 8, 2018 2:00 PM, "Jamison Painter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
It seems to me that most of us know that the Gregorian Calendar is a reform of the Julian Calendar, which itself  was a reform of the Roman Calendar.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018, 1:44 PM Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Michael needs to look up the difference between a noun phrase and a proper noun.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 12:42 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 6:34 PM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
It is a proper noun

Victor needs to look up the difference between a noun and a noun-phrase.

 
, i. e., the name of THE Gregorian calendar. There's no need to drag the Romans into it. 

...you mean other than the fact that they're the origin of the "Gregorian Calendar" 's months?  :D

 I'm not trying to legislate that you not be allowed to say "Gregorian Calendar."

I realize that following tradition is very, very important to some people.But your hallowed and sacrosanct tradition of calling it the "Gregorian Calendar", when only part of it is Gregorian, is silly.

And that worship of tradition is self-contradictory too:  The Roman month-system has presumably been kept partly due to tradition (but maybe just inertia and laziness).  But, if you value that tradition, then why do you want to forbid mentioning the Roman contribution, the Roman origin of the months. 

So we keep the Roman month-system because we value tradition so much, but we also have a tradition of not referring to that Roman origin in the calendar's name?

Maybe I should apologize for offending the traditional sensibilities of some very devoted followers of tradition.

When I refer to the current universal civil calendar, I call it by its month-system and its leapyear-system. No one's saying that you have to.

Yes, several have pointed out how common the "Gregorian Calendar" usage is. Sorry, but "common" isn't the same as "apt".

As a name, "Gregorian Calendar" is less apt, less descriptive, and less useful than "Roman-Gregorian Calendar". "Gregorian Calendar"  implies something, an origin, that isn't true. And, thereby, it probably misleads some people regarding the matter of the calendar's origin.

But, as I said, I'm not saying that you should have to change your usage. This silly quibble began when Karl started objecting to my use of "Roman-Gregorian Calendar".

Now, have we all had our say?

Michael Ossipoff

 
On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:00 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
 Michael seems to be using "Gregorian" as an adjective. Karl, like almost everyone else in the world, is using "Gregorian Calendar" as a proper noun.


Incorrect. "Gregorian Calendar" is a noun-phrase, not a noun.

But of course a noun-phrase can be, and often is, used as a noun.

Michael Ossipoff


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:51 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Typo:

I added, to the text quoted below, the phrase in brackets.

It [The Roman Calendar now in use] is one of several month systems used by the Romans.

When I said "The Roman Calendar now in use", I meant "The Roman month-system now in use".

Michael Ossipoff


On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:45 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 12:07 PM, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Michael and Calendar People

 

Three quick answers:

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael Ossipoff
Sent: 06 April 2018 16:03
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Reply to Karl, regarding ISO WeekDate, the obvious best calendar-reform proposal.


KARL REPLIES: It [The Roman Calendar now in use] is one of several month systems used by the Romans. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_calendar .


Yes, and any one of those several could be called "a Roman month-system".  I didn't use "a". I used "the". That means that I was referring to something that there's only one of.

Of those several month-systems that the Romans used at different time, guess which one is the Roman month-system.

It's the one, the final one, that they eventually arrived at and didn't replace.    ...the only one remaining in use.

What Karl is missing is that, at any time, there's only one Roman month-system that can be called "the Roman month-system".

Each of several month-systems that was a Roman month-system, stopped being "the Roman month system" as soon as, in Roman use, it was replaced by a new Roman month-system.

Is there a Roman month-system that wasn't so replaced? Yes. We're using it now.






.

It's usually erroneously called "the Gregorian Calendar', even though only its leapyear-rule, and not its year-division system, is Gregorian.

KARL REPLIES: I disagree.


Karl thinks that our civil calendar's year-division system, month-system, is Gregorian in origin.

You post in purple, to distinguish your posts from those of other people. And then, often that results in subsequent lines likewise appearing in purple, and so I have to change the color of my own text back to black.
 

Michael Ossipoff







Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Amos Shapir-2
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Hi Diego and calendar people,

Actually, the FR calendar is a textbook example of why a calendar which does not keep the uninterrupted 7-day weekly cycle, will not be accepted soon.
Our society is still too much religious for that.

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 10:28 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.



--
Amos Shapir
 
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter

Dear Jamison and Calendar People

 

Many people on this list believe that the 7-day week will continue to be used by many people without any modification and so for a reformed calendar to be perennial (each year has the same form, except for intercalation), it must integrate this 7 day week. This gave rise to several proposals where a common year has 364 days and a leap year has a leap week added giving it 371 days.

 

I summarised these ideas in

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/lweek1.htm

 

My personal preference has been to make the week a sub-unit of the year grouped either into months of 4 or 5 weeks or into quarters of 13 weeks to which a leap week may be added.

All leap week calendar proposals I’ve seen, except the ISO week date do not use the week as a subdivision, but instead continue the practice of counting the day of month.  I think removing the need to count the day of month would make the calendar easier to use. Instead one would need to count weeks. This week is ISO week 15, Week 2 of Quarter 2 or Week 2 of Month 4.

 

A long time ago, I thought of a playing card calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/playcard.htm

Then one can use a pack/deck of cards as a calendar by displaying the playing card for the week. This week is the two of Diamonds.

 

Also I think a leap week calendar may need to be accompanied by a leap day calendar such as the Gregorian calendar, which would be used not as a civil calendar but for specialised purposes for which the variation of the solstice and equinox dates in the civil calendar would not be acceptable.

 

 

One possible objection to the French Republican calendar is that not all days belong to a month or decimal week. A similar objection applies to my playing card calendar.

 

The Egyptian calendar year started at varying seasons, until the Romans added leap days. Then the new year was August 29 or 30 in the Julian calendar and remains so today. The Coptic and Ethiopian calendars are descended directly from this reformed Egyptian calendar, also known as the Alexandrian calendar. These new year dates are currently September 11 or 12 in the Gregorian calendar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_calendar

 

 

Also I invented a lunar calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/yerm1.htm which I use in the footer.

 

Karl

 

17(03(24

 

Monday Two of Diamonds

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jamison Painter
Sent: 08 April 2018 20:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Introduction.

 

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

 

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

 

 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Jamison Painter
Although it is true that people seem quite addicted to the 7-Day week, that could be used separately. We could adopt the French calendar, and give everybody the decade off, and the afternoon of the 5th day off, and then Sunday off whichever day in the decade it turned out to be. It would therefore cycle through the decade, which would give people a day off during the work week in which they could get things done. This being because everybody else would be working.

After all, the 7-Day week should be disposed of as quickly as possible. It really serves no valuable purpose. It has nothing to recommend it, as it does not match any cycle that actually exists in the world. Granted, the same could be said of the decade, but at least the decade makes some logical sense. I would also encourage shifting to decimal time as well.

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 6:51 AM Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Jamison and Calendar People

 

Many people on this list believe that the 7-day week will continue to be used by many people without any modification and so for a reformed calendar to be perennial (each year has the same form, except for intercalation), it must integrate this 7 day week. This gave rise to several proposals where a common year has 364 days and a leap year has a leap week added giving it 371 days.

 

I summarised these ideas in

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/lweek1.htm

 

My personal preference has been to make the week a sub-unit of the year grouped either into months of 4 or 5 weeks or into quarters of 13 weeks to which a leap week may be added.

All leap week calendar proposals I’ve seen, except the ISO week date do not use the week as a subdivision, but instead continue the practice of counting the day of month.  I think removing the need to count the day of month would make the calendar easier to use. Instead one would need to count weeks. This week is ISO week 15, Week 2 of Quarter 2 or Week 2 of Month 4.

 

A long time ago, I thought of a playing card calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/playcard.htm

Then one can use a pack/deck of cards as a calendar by displaying the playing card for the week. This week is the two of Diamonds.

 

Also I think a leap week calendar may need to be accompanied by a leap day calendar such as the Gregorian calendar, which would be used not as a civil calendar but for specialised purposes for which the variation of the solstice and equinox dates in the civil calendar would not be acceptable.

 

 

One possible objection to the French Republican calendar is that not all days belong to a month or decimal week. A similar objection applies to my playing card calendar.

 

The Egyptian calendar year started at varying seasons, until the Romans added leap days. Then the new year was August 29 or 30 in the Julian calendar and remains so today. The Coptic and Ethiopian calendars are descended directly from this reformed Egyptian calendar, also known as the Alexandrian calendar. These new year dates are currently September 11 or 12 in the Gregorian calendar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_calendar

 

 

Also I invented a lunar calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/yerm1.htm which I use in the footer.

 

Karl

 

17(03(24

 

Monday Two of Diamonds

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jamison Painter
Sent: 08 April 2018 20:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Introduction.

 

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

 

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

 

 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Sepp Rothwangl
Dear Jamison,

I am fully with about disposing the 7 day week. It is religious nonsense!
If you can understand German, here is a video with an explanation upon ist astrological origin.

Here is an article that my inspire you for a new calendar:

Best regards

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.947
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com

Am 09.04.2018 um 14:45 schrieb Jamison Painter <[hidden email]>:

Although it is true that people seem quite addicted to the 7-Day week, that could be used separately. We could adopt the French calendar, and give everybody the decade off, and the afternoon of the 5th day off, and then Sunday off whichever day in the decade it turned out to be. It would therefore cycle through the decade, which would give people a day off during the work week in which they could get things done. This being because everybody else would be working.

After all, the 7-Day week should be disposed of as quickly as possible. It really serves no valuable purpose. It has nothing to recommend it, as it does not match any cycle that actually exists in the world. Granted, the same could be said of the decade, but at least the decade makes some logical sense. I would also encourage shifting to decimal time as well.

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 6:51 AM Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Jamison and Calendar People

 

Many people on this list believe that the 7-day week will continue to be used by many people without any modification and so for a reformed calendar to be perennial (each year has the same form, except for intercalation), it must integrate this 7 day week. This gave rise to several proposals where a common year has 364 days and a leap year has a leap week added giving it 371 days.

 

I summarised these ideas in

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/lweek1.htm

 

My personal preference has been to make the week a sub-unit of the year grouped either into months of 4 or 5 weeks or into quarters of 13 weeks to which a leap week may be added.

All leap week calendar proposals I’ve seen, except the ISO week date do not use the week as a subdivision, but instead continue the practice of counting the day of month.  I think removing the need to count the day of month would make the calendar easier to use. Instead one would need to count weeks. This week is ISO week 15, Week 2 of Quarter 2 or Week 2 of Month 4.

 

A long time ago, I thought of a playing card calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/playcard.htm

Then one can use a pack/deck of cards as a calendar by displaying the playing card for the week. This week is the two of Diamonds.

 

Also I think a leap week calendar may need to be accompanied by a leap day calendar such as the Gregorian calendar, which would be used not as a civil calendar but for specialised purposes for which the variation of the solstice and equinox dates in the civil calendar would not be acceptable.

 

 

One possible objection to the French Republican calendar is that not all days belong to a month or decimal week. A similar objection applies to my playing card calendar.

 

The Egyptian calendar year started at varying seasons, until the Romans added leap days. Then the new year was August 29 or 30 in the Julian calendar and remains so today. The Coptic and Ethiopian calendars are descended directly from this reformed Egyptian calendar, also known as the Alexandrian calendar. These new year dates are currently September 11 or 12 in the Gregorian calendar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_calendar

 

 

Also I invented a lunar calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/yerm1.htm which I use in the footer.

 

Karl

 

17(03(24

 

Monday Two of Diamonds

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jamison Painter
Sent: 08 April 2018 20:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Introduction.

 

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

 

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

 

 


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

John E. Woods
In reply to this post by Amos Shapir-2

Please unsubscribe me from this listserv.

 

JW

__________________

John Woods

Pick Hall 115

5828 S. University Ave.

(773) 702-8343

[hidden email]

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List <[hidden email]> On Behalf Of Amos Shapir
Sent: Monday, April 9, 2018 2:19 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Introduction.

 

Hi Diego and calendar people,

Actually, the FR calendar is a textbook example of why a calendar which does not keep the uninterrupted 7-day weekly cycle, will not be accepted soon.

Our society is still too much religious for that.

 

On Sun, Apr 8, 2018 at 10:28 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

 

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

 



--

Amos Shapir

 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Sepp Rothwangl
I won't call it religious nonsense. After all, I'm a firm Christian believer myself. I go to church quite regularly. But, I do believe in French secularism even though I live in the United States. I think religion should be taxed just like a business. And I certainly see no logic and imposing a basic Christian calendar on an entire country. And one that fundamentally makes no sense for accounting purposes.

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 9:06 AM Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Jamison,

I am fully with about disposing the 7 day week. It is religious nonsense!
If you can understand German, here is a video with an explanation upon ist astrological origin.

Here is an article that my inspire you for a new calendar:

Best regards

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Sepp Rothwangl

It is one thing to dispose of the 7 day week; it is another thing to decide with what to replace it.

The French tried a 10 day week, and gave it up. The Soviets tried a 5 day week, and gave that up too.

Religion or not, astrology or not, the 7 day week has won by default

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Monday, April 9, 2018 Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Jamison,

I am fully with about disposing the 7 day week. It is religious nonsense!
If you can understand German, here is a video with an explanation upon ist astrological origin.

Here is an article that my inspire you for a new calendar:

Best regards


Am 09.04.2018 um 14:45 schrieb Jamison Painter <[hidden email]>:

Although it is true that people seem quite addicted to the 7-Day week, that could be used separately. We could adopt the French calendar, and give everybody the decade off, and the afternoon of the 5th day off, and then Sunday off whichever day in the decade it turned out to be. It would therefore cycle through the decade, which would give people a day off during the work week in which they could get things done. This being because everybody else would be working.

After all, the 7-Day week should be disposed of as quickly as possible. It really serves no valuable purpose. It has nothing to recommend it, as it does not match any cycle that actually exists in the world. Granted, the same could be said of the decade, but at least the decade makes some logical sense. I would also encourage shifting to decimal time as well.

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 6:51 AM Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Jamison and Calendar People

 

Many people on this list believe that the 7-day week will continue to be used by many people without any modification and so for a reformed calendar to be perennial (each year has the same form, except for intercalation), it must integrate this 7 day week. This gave rise to several proposals where a common year has 364 days and a leap year has a leap week added giving it 371 days.

 

I summarised these ideas in

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/lweek1.htm

 

My personal preference has been to make the week a sub-unit of the year grouped either into months of 4 or 5 weeks or into quarters of 13 weeks to which a leap week may be added.

All leap week calendar proposals I’ve seen, except the ISO week date do not use the week as a subdivision, but instead continue the practice of counting the day of month.  I think removing the need to count the day of month would make the calendar easier to use. Instead one would need to count weeks. This week is ISO week 15, Week 2 of Quarter 2 or Week 2 of Month 4.

 

A long time ago, I thought of a playing card calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/playcard.htm

Then one can use a pack/deck of cards as a calendar by displaying the playing card for the week. This week is the two of Diamonds.

 

Also I think a leap week calendar may need to be accompanied by a leap day calendar such as the Gregorian calendar, which would be used not as a civil calendar but for specialised purposes for which the variation of the solstice and equinox dates in the civil calendar would not be acceptable.

 

 

One possible objection to the French Republican calendar is that not all days belong to a month or decimal week. A similar objection applies to my playing card calendar.

 

The Egyptian calendar year started at varying seasons, until the Romans added leap days. Then the new year was August 29 or 30 in the Julian calendar and remains so today. The Coptic and Ethiopian calendars are descended directly from this reformed Egyptian calendar, also known as the Alexandrian calendar. These new year dates are currently September 11 or 12 in the Gregorian calendar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_calendar

 

 

Also I invented a lunar calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/yerm1.htm which I use in the footer.

 

Karl

 

17(03(24

 

Monday Two of Diamonds

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jamison Painter
Sent: 08 April 2018 20:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Introduction.

 

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

 

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

 

 


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Jamison Painter
Just because people have tried other lengths of the week and given it up doesn't mean that we would have to. The Soviet method didn't work because they didn't leave a day to repair the machines and maintain them. It also did not work because family members did not have the same day off each week. The French method did not work at the time, because people were used to the 7-day cycle of having their various days off, particularly Sunday, and their market days once every week etc.

We live in an entirely different era. The 10-day week would probably work much better than it did then. And it certainly makes more sense. The fact that the seven day week has won by default doesn't mean it must always do so.

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 10:57 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is one thing to dispose of the 7 day week; it is another thing to decide with what to replace it.

The French tried a 10 day week, and gave it up. The Soviets tried a 5 day week, and gave that up too.

Religion or not, astrology or not, the 7 day week has won by default

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


On Monday, April 9, 2018 Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Jamison,

I am fully with about disposing the 7 day week. It is religious nonsense!
If you can understand German, here is a video with an explanation upon ist astrological origin.

Here is an article that my inspire you for a new calendar:

Best regards

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.947
<div style="color: rgb
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC
In reply to this post by Sepp Rothwangl

Dear Jamison and Calendar People

 

JAMISON SAID:

After all, the 7-Day week should be disposed of as quickly as possible. It really serves no valuable purpose. It has nothing to recommend it, as it does not match any cycle that actually exists in the world. Granted, the same could be said of the decade, …

 

KARL REPLIES: Actually there is a subtle difference between the decade and the week, unrelated to the number of days in it.

The week has 7 days without interruption, so is unrelated to the year.

The decade has 10 days, but is interrupted by the 5 or 6 epagomenal days, which do not belong to any decade, so there are exactly 36 decades in every year.

Consequently, the decade is a kind of solar week, whereas the week is neither solar nor lunar.

 

 

Also I have mentioned (on January 12, 2018) the idea of having a calendar like the French Republican calendar, but with years beginning on Gregorian March 1. I called this calendar the Fregorian calendar. Not only does every Fregorian date occur on the same Gregorian date every year, but also Christmas occurs on the last day of the 10th month (Decembrose 30).

 

Marchal  Mar 1  – Mar 30

Aprial   Mar 31 – Apr 29

Mayal    Apr 30 – May 29

 

Junedor  May 30 – Jun 28

Julydor  Jun 29 – Jul 28

Augudor  Jul 29 – Aug 27

 

Septembaire Aug 28 – Sep 26

Octobaire   Sep 27 – Oct 26

Novembaire  Oct 27 – Nov 25

 

Decembrose  Nov 26 – Dec 25

Januose     Dec 26 – Jan 24

Februose    Jan 25 – Feb 23

 

Epagomenal Days Feb 24 to end of February

 

Karl

 

Aprial 10, 2018

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sepp ROTHWANGL
Sent: 09 April 2018 15:06
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Introduction.

 

Dear Jamison,

 

I am fully with about disposing the 7 day week. It is religious nonsense!

If you can understand German, here is a video with an explanation upon ist astrological origin.

 

Here is an article that my inspire you for a new calendar:

 

Best regards

 

 

Am 09.04.2018 um 14:45 schrieb Jamison Painter <[hidden email]>:



Although it is true that people seem quite addicted to the 7-Day week, that could be used separately. We could adopt the French calendar, and give everybody the decade off, and the afternoon of the 5th day off, and then Sunday off whichever day in the decade it turned out to be. It would therefore cycle through the decade, which would give people a day off during the work week in which they could get things done. This being because everybody else would be working.

 

After all, the 7-Day week should be disposed of as quickly as possible. It really serves no valuable purpose. It has nothing to recommend it, as it does not match any cycle that actually exists in the world. Granted, the same could be said of the decade, but at least the decade makes some logical sense. I would also encourage shifting to decimal time as well.

 

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 6:51 AM Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Jamison and Calendar People

 

Many people on this list believe that the 7-day week will continue to be used by many people without any modification and so for a reformed calendar to be perennial (each year has the same form, except for intercalation), it must integrate this 7 day week. This gave rise to several proposals where a common year has 364 days and a leap year has a leap week added giving it 371 days.

 

I summarised these ideas in

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/lweek1.htm

 

My personal preference has been to make the week a sub-unit of the year grouped either into months of 4 or 5 weeks or into quarters of 13 weeks to which a leap week may be added.

All leap week calendar proposals I’ve seen, except the ISO week date do not use the week as a subdivision, but instead continue the practice of counting the day of month.  I think removing the need to count the day of month would make the calendar easier to use. Instead one would need to count weeks. This week is ISO week 15, Week 2 of Quarter 2 or Week 2 of Month 4.

 

A long time ago, I thought of a playing card calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/playcard.htm

Then one can use a pack/deck of cards as a calendar by displaying the playing card for the week. This week is the two of Diamonds.

 

Also I think a leap week calendar may need to be accompanied by a leap day calendar such as the Gregorian calendar, which would be used not as a civil calendar but for specialised purposes for which the variation of the solstice and equinox dates in the civil calendar would not be acceptable.

 

 

One possible objection to the French Republican calendar is that not all days belong to a month or decimal week. A similar objection applies to my playing card calendar.

 

The Egyptian calendar year started at varying seasons, until the Romans added leap days. Then the new year was August 29 or 30 in the Julian calendar and remains so today. The Coptic and Ethiopian calendars are descended directly from this reformed Egyptian calendar, also known as the Alexandrian calendar. These new year dates are currently September 11 or 12 in the Gregorian calendar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_calendar

 

 

Also I invented a lunar calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/yerm1.htm which I use in the footer.

 

Karl

 

17(03(24

 

Monday Two of Diamonds

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jamison Painter
Sent: 08 April 2018 20:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Introduction.

 

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

 

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

 

 

 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Jamison Painter
Certainly the decade is a solar kind of week. The ancient Egyptians certainly would have agreed. after all, although I'm not sure how many people knew this when the French calendar was being created, what they essentially managed to do was recreate the Egyptian solar calendar with the exception of the fact that the Egyptian calendar started on the summer solstice as opposed to the autumnal equinox.

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 11:10 AM Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Jamison and Calendar People

 

JAMISON SAID:

After all, the 7-Day week should be disposed of as quickly as possible. It really serves no valuable purpose. It has nothing to recommend it, as it does not match any cycle that actually exists in the world. Granted, the same could be said of the decade, …

 

KARL REPLIES: Actually there is a subtle difference between the decade and the week, unrelated to the number of days in it.

The week has 7 days without interruption, so is unrelated to the year.

The decade has 10 days, but is interrupted by the 5 or 6 epagomenal days, which do not belong to any decade, so there are exactly 36 decades in every year.

Consequently, the decade is a kind of solar week, whereas the week is neither solar nor lunar.

 

 

Also I have mentioned (on January 12, 2018) the idea of having a calendar like the French Republican calendar, but with years beginning on Gregorian March 1. I called this calendar the Fregorian calendar. Not only does every Fregorian date occur on the same Gregorian date every year, but also Christmas occurs on the last day of the 10th month (Decembrose 30).

 

Marchal  Mar 1  – Mar 30

Aprial   Mar 31 – Apr 29

Mayal    Apr 30 – May 29

 

Junedor  May 30 – Jun 28

Julydor  Jun 29 – Jul 28

Augudor  Jul 29 – Aug 27

 

Septembaire Aug 28 – Sep 26

Octobaire   Sep 27 – Oct 26

Novembaire  Oct 27 – Nov 25

 

Decembrose  Nov 26 – Dec 25

Januose     Dec 26 – Jan 24

Februose    Jan 25 – Feb 23

 

Epagomenal Days Feb 24 to end of February

 

Karl

 

Aprial 10, 2018

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Sepp ROTHWANGL
Sent: 09 April 2018 15:06
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Introduction.

 

Dear Jamison,

 

I am fully with about disposing the 7 day week. It is religious nonsense!

If you can understand German, here is a video with an explanation upon ist astrological origin.

 

Here is an article that my inspire you for a new calendar:

 

Best regards

 

 

Am 09.04.2018 um 14:45 schrieb Jamison Painter <[hidden email]>:



Although it is true that people seem quite addicted to the 7-Day week, that could be used separately. We could adopt the French calendar, and give everybody the decade off, and the afternoon of the 5th day off, and then Sunday off whichever day in the decade it turned out to be. It would therefore cycle through the decade, which would give people a day off during the work week in which they could get things done. This being because everybody else would be working.

 

After all, the 7-Day week should be disposed of as quickly as possible. It really serves no valuable purpose. It has nothing to recommend it, as it does not match any cycle that actually exists in the world. Granted, the same could be said of the decade, but at least the decade makes some logical sense. I would also encourage shifting to decimal time as well.

 

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 6:51 AM Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Jamison and Calendar People

 

Many people on this list believe that the 7-day week will continue to be used by many people without any modification and so for a reformed calendar to be perennial (each year has the same form, except for intercalation), it must integrate this 7 day week. This gave rise to several proposals where a common year has 364 days and a leap year has a leap week added giving it 371 days.

 

I summarised these ideas in

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/lweek1.htm

 

My personal preference has been to make the week a sub-unit of the year grouped either into months of 4 or 5 weeks or into quarters of 13 weeks to which a leap week may be added.

All leap week calendar proposals I’ve seen, except the ISO week date do not use the week as a subdivision, but instead continue the practice of counting the day of month.  I think removing the need to count the day of month would make the calendar easier to use. Instead one would need to count weeks. This week is ISO week 15, Week 2 of Quarter 2 or Week 2 of Month 4.

 

A long time ago, I thought of a playing card calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/playcard.htm

Then one can use a pack/deck of cards as a calendar by displaying the playing card for the week. This week is the two of Diamonds.

 

Also I think a leap week calendar may need to be accompanied by a leap day calendar such as the Gregorian calendar, which would be used not as a civil calendar but for specialised purposes for which the variation of the solstice and equinox dates in the civil calendar would not be acceptable.

 

 

One possible objection to the French Republican calendar is that not all days belong to a month or decimal week. A similar objection applies to my playing card calendar.

 

The Egyptian calendar year started at varying seasons, until the Romans added leap days. Then the new year was August 29 or 30 in the Julian calendar and remains so today. The Coptic and Ethiopian calendars are descended directly from this reformed Egyptian calendar, also known as the Alexandrian calendar. These new year dates are currently September 11 or 12 in the Gregorian calendar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coptic_calendar

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethiopian_calendar

 

 

Also I invented a lunar calendar

https://www.hermetic.ch/cal_stud/palmen/yerm1.htm which I use in the footer.

 

Karl

 

17(03(24

 

Monday Two of Diamonds

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jamison Painter
Sent: 08 April 2018 20:28
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Introduction.

 

That having been said, I am new here. Its a pleasure to meet you all. Diego here. My personal preference for calendar reform is the French Republican Calendar. It certainly is the most logical. And the argument that people got less rest time is a myth. In reality, they got every 10 day off, and the afternoon of every five day. That actually worked out to slightly more than the time they had gotten off having Sundays in the old cycle.

 

Of course, without really intending to, they actually duplicated in some ways the ancient Egyptian calendar. The exception being of course, that the Egyptian calendar started with the summer solstice, as opposed to the Autumn Equinox. 

 

The leap year thing could have been worked out. The only reason that it was not is the fact that the calendar was not used long enough to make it an issue. But it could have been dealt with.

 

 

 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter

Dear Jamison

Let me suggest a more imaginative solution: The Indonesian Pawukon

The Indonesion Pawukon is a repeating cycle of 210 days. Its factors are 2, 3, 5, and 7. As such, it can handle several different week lengths simultaneously: 3, 5, 6, 7 and 10 day weeks can be derived from this cycle

Why not adopt the Pawukon, and let people choose whichever week they want to follow?

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Monday, April 9, 2018 Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

Just because people have tried other lengths of the week and given it up doesn't mean that we would have to. The Soviet method didn't work because they didn't leave a day to repair the machines and maintain them. It also did not work because family members did not have the same day off each week. The French method did not work at the time, because people were used to the 7-day cycle of having their various days off, particularly Sunday, and their market days once every week etc.

We live in an entirely different era. The 10-day week would probably work much better than it did then. And it certainly makes more sense. The fact that the seven day week has won by default doesn't mean it must always do so.

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 10:57 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

It is one thing to dispose of the 7 day week; it is another thing to decide with what to replace it.

The French tried a 10 day week, and gave it up. The Soviets tried a 5 day week, and gave that up too.

Religion or not, astrology or not, the 7 day week has won by default

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


On Monday, April 9, 2018 Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Jamison,

I am fully with about disposing the 7 day week. It is religious nonsense!
If you can understand German, here is a video with an explanation upon ist astrological origin.

Here is an article that my inspire you for a new calendar:

Best regards

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -239.947
<div style="color: rgb
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|

Re: Introduction.

Christoph Päper-2
My take on the issue is similar, but better compatible with actual proposals: <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Shift_Calendar>

In short, keep the uninterrupted seven-day week as is, but superimpose other regular cycles on it that have intercalary gaps to synchronize with the traditional week and other subdivisions of the year.

Walter J Ziobro:

>
>Let me suggest a more imaginative solution: The Indonesian Pawukon
>
>The Indonesion Pawukon is a repeating cycle of 210 days. Its factors
>are 2, 3, 5, and 7. As such, it can handle several different week
>lengths simultaneously: 3, 5, 6, 7 and 10 day weeks can be derived from
>this cycle
>
>Why not adopt the Pawukon, and let people choose whichever week they
>want to follow?