French Republican Calendar.

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French Republican Calendar.

Jamison Painter
One of the benefits of the French Republican Calendar is that each day is named after a plant, animal, mineral, or farm tool. And the app that I have on my phone to give me the date also allows me to click on the day-name, which automatically looks it up. I have been learning a great deal each day by looking up the day-name. For example, today is 15 Floréal, Silkworm. I clicked on Silkworm and learned all about that particular animal. Very interesting!

Jamison
15 Floréal CCXXVI, Silkworm.

On Fri, May 4, 2018, 6:19 AM Litmus UCC <[hidden email]> wrote:

13 TWO-Taurus♉ 13519 UCC

Dear Jamison

Thank you for your kind and positive feedback. I only discovered after creating the calendar that the French Republican & Egyptian calendars also had 12 months of 30 days made up of 3 weeks of 10 days. But of course they both put the remaining 5 days together as a sort of intercalary 5 day month.

I'm glad you agree that the balanced nature of the UCC is indeed logical, and hopefully also you find it to be universal in that its terms and structure work the same regardless of where we are on the planet

Best regards

Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar (UCC)
http://universalcelestialcalendar.com
On 04/21/2018 03:16 AM, Jamison Painter wrote:
On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:31 AM Litmus UCC [hidden email] wrote:

29 ONE-Aries♈ 13519 UCC

Dear calendar list people

In view of all the recent discussions about the French Revolutionary calendar and 10 day weeks I would like to mention my calendar creation the 'Universal Celestial Calendar' (UCC).

It is a perennial calendar based on a 10 day week ('Decan') and 12 months (called 'Triads') each of 3 Decans and therefore 30 days. The year numbers are derived from the Great Year (precession of the equinoxes) for the 'common era'

Details are here: http://universalcelestialcalendar.com

Such a calendar could be phased in over a few generations, but for now it is really aimed at people who want to stay in synch with the Sun and our natural seasonal cycles, and who are not bound by the constrains of the current, inherited, Roman legal/civil/calendar system

Peace, love and freedom

Litmus


I like this calendar. I think I still prefer the French Republican calendar. But I do like yours as well. It is very logically created, and I am very impressed.

Jamison
1 Floréal CCXXVI, Rose.
-- 
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar (UCC)
http://universalcelestialcalendar.com

On 04/20/2018 03:45 AM, Walter J Ziobro wrote:

IMO the current Gregorian Calendar does not need so much to be replaced with something different but that alternative calendars ought to be available to those who want to mark time differently Indeed such alternatives are already in use by selected parts of the general population Religious groups have their own calendars Business and government fiscal authorities have their own calendars although they are generally limited in their descriptions

IMO ISO 8601 represents an agreed upon method of presenting date and time information and should be used as the reference point for any practical alternative calendars

Different strokes for different folks - but with a common reference

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Thursday, April 19, 2018 Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

I shall respond to this post completely tomorrow afternoon or evening. Possibly even as late as day after tomorrow morning. I have a very full day tomorrow, and won't have time to deal with email much. But I will get back to it.

Jamison
30 Germinal CCXXVI, Grafting Knife.

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 8:47 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:




On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 1:28 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

 
. It serves no purpose

Like any calendar, it keeps track of the days of the year, and it does so without excessive short-term or long term cyclical displacement or drift-rate. And, as I mentioned, it can well be regarded as a picturesque museum treasure handed down to us from about 2000 years ago (the months) and about 400 years ago (the leapyear-syste).

 
and should be eliminated as quickly as possible.

...and how many people are saying that? Is it a burning issue of the day? Is there a furious mass public outcry?

 the point is not whether there is a furious public outcry. the point is the logic of the issue. The calendar needs revising. It is as simple as that.

What percentage of the population say it needs revising? Like that tree that fell in the forest, does a calendar need revising if practically no one says it needs revising, and practically everyone is satisfied with it?




 

Logic isn't everything. Yes the Roman months are idiosyncratic. I call them picturesque. They're a Roman artifact handed down to us, unchanged for millennia. Regard them as a museum treasure that we have on the wall and use every day.

 picturesque as opposed to months that literally are picturesque in the French Revolutionary calendar.

And they aren't as entirely illogical as you imply.

They almost perfectly alternate between long and short months. Of course the only exception to that is July and August, two adjacent long months. But those are the two hottest months of the year.  Arguably that distinction qualifies them as adjacent long months.

 I'm not exactly sure I see how. It seems that the only reason both months are 31 days is because of the arrogance of Augustus. Augustus may have been a fine leader, but he was still arrogant.

I suggested why the Romans gave Augustus & Julius the two adjacent hottest months. I already said that. But I also said that it makes sense for the two hottest months to be both long months, adjacent.
 

It's probably no coincidence that the two hottest months were the adjacent months that were chosen to name after Emperors after.

February? February is unique and special. It's the first month when there's some sign of approaching spring. I say that uniqueness qualifies February for its unique length.

 certainly the Romans would have disagreed with you about the specialness of February. they hated the month.

I didn't speak of what the Romans would have said in response. No doubt their reason for giving February fewer months might very well be different from my justification for February having a unique length.



 

So there's no need for "30 days hath September...[etc]", due to the alternation, and the special-ness of the exception to it, and of the uniquely short month.

I commend your fight for logic, but it isn't everything, and I don't hear any complaints from the population about the Roman months or the Gregorian leap-year system.

 Really logic is everything.

! ! !

I thought you didn't want to discuss philosophy. You're making a philosophical assertion.   ...one that few, nowadays, anywhere, would agree with.  ...other than Commander Data of the Starship Enterprise.

What about it where are we?

Clarification needed.
 

 

There is absolutely no need to change it.

...unless you're interested in actually eventually getting it accepted and enacted.

Again, the coercive power of the state would do that just fine.

Wait a minute. I answered that in the post that you're replying to.

1. Why should you expect a coercive state to coerce the imposition of a calendar, and that calendar in particular? What coercive state is going to do that? The current one? Some hypothetical future one? How many years in the future?

 the current one of course. The same one that makes us get driver's licenses. The same one that makes us get hunting licenses. The same one that in many states requires us to show ID before we vote.

Alright, but why would they, and when?
 

And remember that one thing that brought the end of the French Republican Calendar was the fact that having a calendar different from the rest of the world impeded business, travel and communication. Those international interactions are all the more busy and important now. So are all the countries going to coercively impose the same calendar on their populations?

 So until other countries are smart enough to make change themselves, we double date for international work. So what? That's not too hard.

True, and good point. One country changing its calendar first sounds feasible.

 

2. I don't believe in coercively imposing a subjective choice like a calendar on a population. The calendar that I want the population (here and throughout the world) to have is:

Any one that they like, want, accept and/or  are satisfied with, and which isn't seriously objectionable to any significantly-sizeable segment of the population.

 keep in mind that the average American is not that bright. Some things simply need to be imposed for the good of people who may not even realize that that is for their good.

Especially on a subjective matter-of-opinion, like a choice among calendars, i wouldn't want to claim to tell someone else what's better for them, and impose it on them.  That's why my favorite would be whichever calendar people like the most, whether that's a new calendar, or the current one.

...though of course I sometimes say a few words about their merits, and might also do so if there were a large-scale discussion underway regarding calendar-reform.

Don't let them put holidays on weekends.

 

 

 the church would lose a lot of power if the French Revolutionary calendar were adopted.

...and that's an enactment-acceptance advantage? Ask Elizabeth Achellis.

I do not have to ask her. We live in a very different age than the 1950s.

Fair answer. Conceivably there are no longer a large number of church-members who'd object to blank-days or a 10-day week, on Sabbatarian grounds?  Alright, ask people and find out. Have you told other members of your church-denomination about your blank-days, 10-day-week proposal? How do they feel about it? Ask the question at religious forums and find out how people feel. That research is essential when putting-together a proposal.
 

 
and I think a lot of Americans, including some religious ones, would be more than happy to see taxes imposed on the church. It might actually save our pocket a few bucks.

Tax law is an entirely different topic, with no relation to calendars or calendar-reform. If we discuss tax-law, then do you want to reconsider discussing metaphysics?

I disagree. Discussion of Metaphysics does not discuss the weakening of the power of the church. Discussion of tax law, although I don't want to get too deep into the subject, does in fact have to do with the question.

...the weakening of the power of the Church, but not calendars.

 
It implies further diminution of the power of the church, which is the goal among other things.

For one thing, now there's no one single monolithic "the church". There are many denominations. For another thing, unlike in the 18th century, the churches no longer have decisive power. They aren't running things. The aren't responsible for the bad aspects for the current societal world. All of our politicians are closet Atheists. Most or all of our scientists are Atheists. Most people believe in Science-Worship as their religion, whatever their cultural norms call on them to defunctorily self-identify as.

And no, the diminution of someone else's church isn't any goal of mine. I respect other people's religion.


 
 


 Again, I believe that the decorative names of the French calendar for its months, as poetic as they are, are far better than the Roman months for telling us what's going on in the northern hemisphere, more or less.

Of course.   But of course, after about 2 millennia of the Roman months, people are long-familiar with what December and January mean, and how February is diffferent (with its occasional hint that Spring is on the way), and what people might expect in April, the month of the hesitant, tentative beginning of Spring (whatever that means in various localities), and (in some places) the beginning of Summer with June, and the hot months of July and August.

Now, after that millennia-long use, the names of those Roman months are synonymous with kinds of expected season, temperature and weather (though I don't claim that the month-season correspondence is consistently accurate).

But certainly when people want to make a clean break with the past, they might very well choose the French-Republican Calendar, because of its seasonal reference--which I like too.




 

 Again, if you impose the calendar along with some far-reaching changes that would diminish the power of the church, I think you would have the support of most of the population.

As I said, ask Elizabeth Achellis. And there's a contradiction between "support of most of the population" and "impose".

 so you have both. What's the problem with that?

I just meant that if most of the population support something, then its adoption isn't an imposition on them. But of course, its adoption could still be an imposition of some few who don't like it. But that's unavoidable. But I don't want to impose something on a group who very strongly don't like it, &/or who comprise lots of people.

When French-Republican was imposed in the 18th Century, people didn't like the sparse days-off,

That is a myth. In fact, getting one day off in seven, as opposed to one and a half days off in 10, they actually had more time off with the decades than they did with the week. Not by a lot, but By some.

True, and good point. 1.5 days off, in a 10-day week, is proportionately equivalent to 1.05 days off in a 7-day week. In other words, about the same. But might they not have expected that things would be better in the new order?

The 1.5 days-off per week appears to have resulted from someone saying, "How few days off can we get away with giving them, for no change from before?"

And you can't be suggesting only 1.5 days off in a 10-day-week now, which would be a major step backwards.

 




You are not entitled to an answer that is not known...

Yes. Tell that to someone who asks you. That will certainly convince them.

 I am not necessarily trying to convince anyone. Again, the average American is not that bright. Sometimes they do things because they are told to. Sometimes it is necessary to tell them to do things that are good for them. Like getting a driver license. Or a hunting license. Otherwise they probably would not do those things.

I'm just saying that some might ask hard questions about the savings and the payback-time.


Agreed. But not having blank-days doesn't prevent there being annual national holidays &/or festival days-off periods. The French Revolution stands out as a throwing-out of oppressors, and is commendable and celebratable. But people here will say, "Then let's just celebrate our great achievement of independence in 1776!"

 Because our achievement in 1776 did not really accomplish much.

Ok.
 
 
As you probably will know, George Washington stated that the reason he was fighting was to fight for the rights of Englishmen. All he wanted was the same privileges that they already had in the Old Country. He wasn't fighting to overthrow society and create a new Society. The French Revolution was intending to do that, and succeeded.

Yes, good point, the French Revolution was an egalitarian revolution.

Michael Ossipoff

(no new text below this line)


 


Michael Ossipoff

Jamison 
29 Germinal CCXXVI, Blueberry.
 
2018-W16-2  (ISO WeekDate)
2018, April 16 (Hanke-Henry)

Jamison
28 Germinal CCXXVI, Pansy.

(No current discussion below this line.)

 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 11:06 AM Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Michael & Calendar

Reply | Threaded
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Re: French Republican Calendar.

Michael Ossipoff
I like months named for their characteristics.  (...for whenever people would favorably to and accept that proposal) Such names could be customized for particular locations. Some would probably apply nearly everywhere on the same side of the equator. For example, "Floreal" is probably descriptive at most places north of the Equator--regardless of whether its climate is warm or cold. Likewise "Germinal" before that.

But, as I was saying in an earlier post, it would be necessary for the definition and rules to explicitly month-naming custom-flexibility, so that the names wouldn't contradict a month's characteristics in some locations. And, as I also said, for full international applicability, it would be necessary to name their months for their place (numbering?) in the seasons--where the seasons are called South, Northward, North, and Southward.. Speaking for myself, I like naming one-month seasons of Pre-Northward and Pre-Southward.

Michael Ossipoff

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 7:45 AM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
One of the benefits of the French Republican Calendar is that each day is named after a plant, animal, mineral, or farm tool. And the app that I have on my phone to give me the date also allows me to click on the day-name, which automatically looks it up. I have been learning a great deal each day by looking up the day-name. For example, today is 15 Floréal, Silkworm. I clicked on Silkworm and learned all about that particular animal. Very interesting!

Jamison
15 Floréal CCXXVI, Silkworm.

On Fri, May 4, 2018, 6:19 AM Litmus UCC <[hidden email]> wrote:

13 TWO-Taurus♉ 13519 UCC

Dear Jamison

Thank you for your kind and positive feedback. I only discovered after creating the calendar that the French Republican & Egyptian calendars also had 12 months of 30 days made up of 3 weeks of 10 days. But of course they both put the remaining 5 days together as a sort of intercalary 5 day month.

I'm glad you agree that the balanced nature of the UCC is indeed logical, and hopefully also you find it to be universal in that its terms and structure work the same regardless of where we are on the planet

Best regards

Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar (UCC)
http://universalcelestialcalendar.com
On 04/21/2018 03:16 AM, Jamison Painter wrote:
On Fri, Apr 20, 2018, 5:31 AM Litmus UCC [hidden email] wrote:

29 ONE-Aries♈ 13519 UCC

Dear calendar list people

In view of all the recent discussions about the French Revolutionary calendar and 10 day weeks I would like to mention my calendar creation the 'Universal Celestial Calendar' (UCC).

It is a perennial calendar based on a 10 day week ('Decan') and 12 months (called 'Triads') each of 3 Decans and therefore 30 days. The year numbers are derived from the Great Year (precession of the equinoxes) for the 'common era'

Details are here: http://universalcelestialcalendar.com

Such a calendar could be phased in over a few generations, but for now it is really aimed at people who want to stay in synch with the Sun and our natural seasonal cycles, and who are not bound by the constrains of the current, inherited, Roman legal/civil/calendar system

Peace, love and freedom

Litmus


I like this calendar. I think I still prefer the French Republican calendar. But I do like yours as well. It is very logically created, and I am very impressed.

Jamison
1 Floréal CCXXVI, Rose.
-- 
Litmus A Freeman
Creator of the Universal Celestial Calendar (UCC)
http://universalcelestialcalendar.com

On 04/20/2018 03:45 AM, Walter J Ziobro wrote:

IMO the current Gregorian Calendar does not need so much to be replaced with something different but that alternative calendars ought to be available to those who want to mark time differently Indeed such alternatives are already in use by selected parts of the general population Religious groups have their own calendars Business and government fiscal authorities have their own calendars although they are generally limited in their descriptions

IMO ISO 8601 represents an agreed upon method of presenting date and time information and should be used as the reference point for any practical alternative calendars

Different strokes for different folks - but with a common reference

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Thursday, April 19, 2018 Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

I shall respond to this post completely tomorrow afternoon or evening. Possibly even as late as day after tomorrow morning. I have a very full day tomorrow, and won't have time to deal with email much. But I will get back to it.

Jamison
30 Germinal CCXXVI, Grafting Knife.

On Thu, Apr 19, 2018, 8:47 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:




On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 4:44 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 1:28 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 12:14 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

 
. It serves no purpose

Like any calendar, it keeps track of the days of the year, and it does so without excessive short-term or long term cyclical displacement or drift-rate. And, as I mentioned, it can well be regarded as a picturesque museum treasure handed down to us from about 2000 years ago (the months) and about 400 years ago (the leapyear-syste).

 
and should be eliminated as quickly as possible.

...and how many people are saying that? Is it a burning issue of the day? Is there a furious mass public outcry?

 the point is not whether there is a furious public outcry. the point is the logic of the issue. The calendar needs revising. It is as simple as that.

What percentage of the population say it needs revising? Like that tree that fell in the forest, does a calendar need revising if practically no one says it needs revising, and practically everyone is satisfied with it?




 

Logic isn't everything. Yes the Roman months are idiosyncratic. I call them picturesque. They're a Roman artifact handed down to us, unchanged for millennia. Regard them as a museum treasure that we have on the wall and use every day.

 picturesque as opposed to months that literally are picturesque in the French Revolutionary calendar.

And they aren't as entirely illogical as you imply.

They almost perfectly alternate between long and short months. Of course the only exception to that is July and August, two adjacent long months. But those are the two hottest months of the year.  Arguably that distinction qualifies them as adjacent long months.

 I'm not exactly sure I see how. It seems that the only reason both months are 31 days is because of the arrogance of Augustus. Augustus may have been a fine leader, but he was still arrogant.

I suggested why the Romans gave Augustus & Julius the two adjacent hottest months. I already said that. But I also said that it makes sense for the two hottest months to be both long months, adjacent.
 

It's probably no coincidence that the two hottest months were the adjacent months that were chosen to name after Emperors after.

February? February is unique and special. It's the first month when there's some sign of approaching spring. I say that uniqueness qualifies February for its unique length.

 certainly the Romans would have disagreed with you about the specialness of February. they hated the month.

I didn't speak of what the Romans would have said in response. No doubt their reason for giving February fewer months might very well be different from my justification for February having a unique length.



 

So there's no need for "30 days hath September...[etc]", due to the alternation, and the special-ness of the exception to it, and of the uniquely short month.

I commend your fight for logic, but it isn't everything, and I don't hear any complaints from the population about the Roman months or the Gregorian leap-year system.

 Really logic is everything.

! ! !

I thought you didn't want to discuss philosophy. You're making a philosophical assertion.   ...one that few, nowadays, anywhere, would agree with.  ...other than Commander Data of the Starship Enterprise.

What about it where are we?

Clarification needed.
 

 

There is absolutely no need to change it.

...unless you're interested in actually eventually getting it accepted and enacted.

Again, the coercive power of the state would do that just fine.

Wait a minute. I answered that in the post that you're replying to.

1. Why should you expect a coercive state to coerce the imposition of a calendar, and that calendar in particular? What coercive state is going to do that? The current one? Some hypothetical future one? How many years in the future?

 the current one of course. The same one that makes us get driver's licenses. The same one that makes us get hunting licenses. The same one that in many states requires us to show ID before we vote.

Alright, but why would they, and when?
 

And remember that one thing that brought the end of the French Republican Calendar was the fact that having a calendar different from the rest of the world impeded business, travel and communication. Those international interactions are all the more busy and important now. So are all the countries going to coercively impose the same calendar on their populations?

 So until other countries are smart enough to make change themselves, we double date for international work. So what? That's not too hard.

True, and good point. One country changing its calendar first sounds feasible.

 

2. I don't believe in coercively imposing a subjective choice like a calendar on a population. The calendar that I want the population (here and throughout the world) to have is:

Any one that they like, want, accept and/or  are satisfied with, and which isn't seriously objectionable to any significantly-sizeable segment of the population.

 keep in mind that the average American is not that bright. Some things simply need to be imposed for the good of people who may not even realize that that is for their good.

Especially on a subjective matter-of-opinion, like a choice among calendars, i wouldn't want to claim to tell someone else what's better for them, and impose it on them.  That's why my favorite would be whichever calendar people like the most, whether that's a new calendar, or the current one.

...though of course I sometimes say a few words about their merits, and might also do so if there were a large-scale discussion underway regarding calendar-reform.

Don't let them put holidays on weekends.

 

 

 the church would lose a lot of power if the French Revolutionary calendar were adopted.

...and that's an enactment-acceptance advantage? Ask Elizabeth Achellis.

I do not have to ask her. We live in a very different age than the 1950s.

Fair answer. Conceivably there are no longer a large number of church-members who'd object to blank-days or a 10-day week, on Sabbatarian grounds?  Alright, ask people and find out. Have you told other members of your church-denomination about your blank-days, 10-day-week proposal? How do they feel about it? Ask the question at religious forums and find out how people feel. That research is essential when putting-together a proposal.
 

 
and I think a lot of Americans, including some religious ones, would be more than happy to see taxes imposed on the church. It might actually save our pocket a few bucks.

Tax law is an entirely different topic, with no relation to calendars or calendar-reform. If we discuss tax-law, then do you want to reconsider discussing metaphysics?

I disagree. Discussion of Metaphysics does not discuss the weakening of the power of the church. Discussion of tax law, although I don't want to get too deep into the subject, does in fact have to do with the question.

...the weakening of the power of the Church, but not calendars.

 
It implies further diminution of the power of the church, which is the goal among other things.

For one thing, now there's no one single monolithic "the church". There are many denominations. For another thing, unlike in the 18th century, the churches no longer have decisive power. They aren't running things. The aren't responsible for the bad aspects for the current societal world. All of our politicians are closet Atheists. Most or all of our scientists are Atheists. Most people believe in Science-Worship as their religion, whatever their cultural norms call on them to defunctorily self-identify as.

And no, the diminution of someone else's church isn't any goal of mine. I respect other people's religion.


 
 


 Again, I believe that the decorative names of the French calendar for its months, as poetic as they are, are far better than the Roman months for telling us what's going on in the northern hemisphere, more or less.

Of course.   But of course, after about 2 millennia of the Roman months, people are long-familiar with what December and January mean, and how February is diffferent (with its occasional hint that Spring is on the way), and what people might expect in April, the month of the hesitant, tentative beginning of Spring (whatever that means in various localities), and (in some places) the beginning of Summer with June, and the hot months of July and August.

Now, after that millennia-long use, the names of those Roman months are synonymous with kinds of expected season, temperature and weather (though I don't claim that the month-season correspondence is consistently accurate).

But certainly when people want to make a clean break with the past, they might very well choose the French-Republican Calendar, because of its seasonal reference--which I like too.




 

 Again, if you impose the calendar along with some far-reaching changes that would diminish the power of the church, I think you would have the support of most of the population.

As I said, ask Elizabeth Achellis. And there's a contradiction between "support of most of the population" and "impose".

 so you have both. What's the problem with that?

I just meant that if most of the population support something, then its adoption isn't an imposition on them. But of course, its adoption could still be an imposition of some few who don't like it. But that's unavoidable. But I don't want to impose something on a group who very strongly don't like it, &/or who comprise lots of people.

When French-Republican was imposed in the 18th Century, people didn't like the sparse days-off,

That is a myth. In fact, getting one day off in seven, as opposed to one and a half days off in 10, they actually had more time off with the decades than they did with the week. Not by a lot, but By some.

True, and good point. 1.5 days off, in a 10-day week, is proportionately equivalent to 1.05 days off in a 7-day week. In other words, about the same. But might they not have expected that things would be better in the new order?

The 1.5 days-off per week appears to have resulted from someone saying, "How few days off can we get away with giving them, for no change from before?"

And you can't be suggesting only 1.5 days off in a 10-day-week now, which would be a major step backwards.

 




You are not entitled to an answer that is not known...

Yes. Tell that to someone who asks you. That will certainly convince them.

 I am not necessarily trying to convince anyone. Again, the average American is not that bright. Sometimes they do things because they are told to. Sometimes it is necessary to tell them to do things that are good for them. Like getting a driver license. Or a hunting license. Otherwise they probably would not do those things.

I'm just saying that some might ask hard questions about the savings and the payback-time.


Agreed. But not having blank-days doesn't prevent there being annual national holidays &/or festival days-off periods. The French Revolution stands out as a throwing-out of oppressors, and is commendable and celebratable. But people here will say, "Then let's just celebrate our great achievement of independence in 1776!"

 Because our achievement in 1776 did not really accomplish much.

Ok.
 
 
As you probably will know, George Washington stated that the reason he was fighting was to fight for the rights of Englishmen. All he wanted was the same privileges that they already had in the Old Country. He wasn't fighting to overthrow society and create a new Society. The French Revolution was intending to do that, and succeeded.

Yes, good point, the French Revolution was an egalitarian revolution.

Michael Ossipoff

(no new text below this line)


 


Michael Ossipoff

Jamison 
29 Germinal CCXXVI, Blueberry.
 
2018-W16-2  (ISO WeekDate)
2018, April 16 (Hanke-Henry)

Jamison
28 Germinal CCXXVI, Pansy.

(No current discussion below this line.)

 

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 11:06 AM Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Michael & Calendar