FW: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

classic Classic list List threaded Threaded
22 messages Options
12
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

FW: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Gent, R.H. van (Rob)
Forwarded from the TZ (Time Zone) mailing list.

rvg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Allen
Sent: maandag 15 februari 2016 17:57
To: Time Zone Database discussion
Subject: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Steve Hanke and Dick Henry want to decharter this tz project

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

--
Steve Allen                 <[hidden email]>               WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB   Natural Sciences II, Room 165   Lat  +36.99855
1156 High Street            Voice: +1 831 459 3046          Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064        http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/    Hgt +250 m
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Sepp Rothwangl
WOW, 

that looks like synergy to my CEP:

Servus
Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -240.728

Am 15.02.2016 um 18:30 schrieb Gent, R.H. van (Rob) <[hidden email]>:

Forwarded from the TZ (Time Zone) mailing list.

rvg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Allen
Sent: maandag 15 februari 2016 17:57
To: Time Zone Database discussion
Subject: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Steve Hanke and Dick Henry want to decharter this tz project

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

--
Steve Allen                 <[hidden email]>               WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB   Natural Sciences II, Room 165   Lat  +36.99855
1156 High Street            Voice: +1 831 459 3046          Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064        http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/    Hgt +250 m

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Fwd: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Sepp Rothwangl
radical attac on time systems


Von: Sepp Rothwangl <[hidden email]>
Betreff: Aw: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz
Datum: 15. Februar 2016 19:06:39 MEZ
An: discussion List Carolina University Calendar East <[hidden email]>

WOW, 

that looks like synergy to my CEP:

Servus
Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -240.728

Am 15.02.2016 um 18:30 schrieb Gent, R.H. van (Rob) <[hidden email]>:

Forwarded from the TZ (Time Zone) mailing list.

rvg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Allen
Sent: maandag 15 februari 2016 17:57
To: Time Zone Database discussion
Subject: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Steve Hanke and Dick Henry want to decharter this tz project

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

--
Steve Allen                 <[hidden email]>               WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB   Natural Sciences II, Room 165   Lat  +36.99855
1156 High Street            Voice: +1 831 459 3046          Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064        http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/    Hgt +250 m


Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: FW: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Gent, R.H. van (Rob)

IMO, there would be no need to "eliminate" time zones per se if people everywhere were given the option to use UT as a legal alternative

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Monday, February 15, 2016 Gent, R.H. van (Rob) (Rob) <[hidden email]> wrote:

Forwarded from the TZ (Time Zone) mailing list.

rvg

-----Original Message-----
From: tz-bounces@... [mailto:tz-bounces@...] On Behalf Of Steve Allen
Sent: maandag 15 februari 2016 17:57
To: Time Zone Database discussion
Subject: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Steve Hanke and Dick Henry want to decharter this tz project

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

--
Steve Allen <sla@...> WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB Natural Sciences II, Room 165 Lat +36.99855
1156 High Street Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064 http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ Hgt +250 m
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Walter, sir: 
UT could be used for 'Internet messaging' but shall be resented by astrologers & day light saving Organisations pleading for energy/ burden on housewife's budget arguments! See my contribution on 'New definition on base unit for time, Decimal Second (sd) we discussed on Calndr-L archives.
Brij B. VIJ

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2016, at 12:44, Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

IMO, there would be no need to "eliminate" time zones per se if people everywhere were given the option to use UT as a legal alternative

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Monday, February 15, 2016 Gent, R.H. van (Rob) (Rob) <[hidden email]> wrote:

Forwarded from the TZ (Time Zone) mailing list.

rvg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Allen
Sent: maandag 15 februari 2016 17:57
To: Time Zone Database discussion
Subject: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Steve Hanke and Dick Henry want to decharter this tz project

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

--
Steve Allen <[hidden email]> WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB Natural Sciences II, Room 165 Lat +36.99855
1156 High Street Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064 http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ Hgt +250 m
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Christoph Päper-2
In reply to this post by Gent, R.H. van (Rob)
> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Walter J Ziobro
Christoph posted:

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Karl Palmen

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Walter J Ziobro

Dear Karl

I believe that Hanke is an economist , and so, I understand his preference for months of closely equal lengths, rather than months of whole weeks. Sales revenues are typically reported by months in business, and sales and value added taxes usually reported and paid to governments by month. It is preferable to have months of closely equal lengths for purposes of comparability. I would there for recommend a 31-30-30, 30-31-30 or 30-30-31 quarter months format as having the highest preference among businessmen and government agencies

While it is true that many businesses and governments have weekly payrolls, these are usually aggregated by quarters in their reports and tax filings, and so 91 day quarters are the most preferred because months and weeks can be synchronized thereby

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Karl Palmen

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

Thank you Walter for your illuminating reply.

 

I have taken the position that the leap week eliminates the advantages of near equal months, including monthly payments.  

How are monthly payments made whenever a leap week occurs?

Could this answer be applied to months of 4 or 5 weeks?

 

Irv deals with this issue for Symmetry454 within

http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/Symmetry454-Calendar-FAQs.pdf

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: Walter J Ziobro [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 17 February 2016 15:31
To: [hidden email]; Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

I believe that Hanke is an economist , and so, I understand his preference for months of closely equal lengths, rather than months of whole weeks. Sales revenues are typically reported by months in business, and sales and value added taxes usually reported and paid to governments by month. It is preferable to have months of closely equal lengths for purposes of comparability. I would there for recommend a 31-30-30, 30-31-30 or 30-30-31 quarter months format as having the highest preference among businessmen and government agencies

While it is true that many businesses and governments have weekly payrolls, these are usually aggregated by quarters in their reports and tax filings, and so 91 day quarters are the most preferred because months and weeks can be synchronized thereby

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Brij Bhushan metric VIJ

Dear Brij

I dont expect everyone to use UT unlike Hanke and Henry But it should be an option

Here in the US some TV and cable networks advertise shows with .more than one time listed For instance a show will be said to air at 8ET 5PT for the Eastern and Pacific time zones Such programing could be simply identified with a single UT listing

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Monday, February 15, 2016 Brij Bhushan metric VIJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

Walter, sir: 
UT could be used for 'Internet messaging' but shall be resented by astrologers & day light saving Organisations pleading for energy/ burden on housewife's budget arguments! See my contribution on 'New definition on base unit for time, Decimal Second (sd) we discussed on Calndr-L archives.
Brij B. VIJ

Sent from my iPhone

On Feb 15, 2016, at 12:44, Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

IMO, there would be no need to "eliminate" time zones per se if people everywhere were given the option to use UT as a legal alternative

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Monday, February 15, 2016 Gent, R.H. van (Rob) (Rob) <[hidden email]> wrote:

Forwarded from the TZ (Time Zone) mailing list.

rvg

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Steve Allen
Sent: maandag 15 februari 2016 17:57
To: Time Zone Database discussion
Subject: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Steve Hanke and Dick Henry want to decharter this tz project

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

--
Steve Allen <[hidden email]> WGS-84 (GPS)
UCO/Lick Observatory--ISB Natural Sciences II, Room 165 Lat +36.99855
1156 High Street Voice: +1 831 459 3046 Lng -122.06015
Santa Cruz, CA 95064 http://www.ucolick.org/~sla/ Hgt +250 m
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Karl Palmen

Dear Karl

It is true that any leap week calendar will cause a month or year to have an length that is less comparable to others but with 30-31-37 or 30-31-38 length months this incompatibility happens only once every 5-6 years, whereas with months of 28-35 day lengths , this incompatibility is built into every quarter

Alas there is no perfect solution to this problem

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 karl.palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

Thank you Walter for your illuminating reply.

 

I have taken the position that the leap week eliminates the advantages of near equal months, including monthly payments.  

How are monthly payments made whenever a leap week occurs?

Could this answer be applied to months of 4 or 5 weeks?

 

Irv deals with this issue for Symmetry454 within

http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/Symmetry454-Calendar-FAQs.pdf

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: Walter J Ziobro [mailto:walterziobro@...]
Sent: 17 February 2016 15:31
To: CALNDR-L@...; Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

I believe that Hanke is an economist , and so, I understand his preference for months of closely equal lengths, rather than months of whole weeks. Sales revenues are typically reported by months in business, and sales and value added taxes usually reported and paid to governments by month. It is preferable to have months of closely equal lengths for purposes of comparability. I would there for recommend a 31-30-30, 30-31-30 or 30-30-31 quarter months format as having the highest preference among businessmen and government agencies

While it is true that many businesses and governments have weekly payrolls, these are usually aggregated by quarters in their reports and tax filings, and so 91 day quarters are the most preferred because months and weeks can be synchronized thereby

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Karl Palmen

Dear Karl

Also, while I prefer the 31-30-30 quarter format because it reflects the month length bias in the current Gregorian calendar, one neat advantage of the 30-30-31 format that H & H favor is that it can be truncated to 90 day periods of 3 30 day months that can be conveniently divided a large number of ways similar to the French Republican calendar.

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 karl.palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

Thank you Walter for your illuminating reply.

 

I have taken the position that the leap week eliminates the advantages of near equal months, including monthly payments.  

How are monthly payments made whenever a leap week occurs?

Could this answer be applied to months of 4 or 5 weeks?

 

Irv deals with this issue for Symmetry454 within

http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/Symmetry454-Calendar-FAQs.pdf

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: Walter J Ziobro [mailto:walterziobro@...]
Sent: 17 February 2016 15:31
To: CALNDR-L@...; Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

I believe that Hanke is an economist , and so, I understand his preference for months of closely equal lengths, rather than months of whole weeks. Sales revenues are typically reported by months in business, and sales and value added taxes usually reported and paid to governments by month. It is preferable to have months of closely equal lengths for purposes of comparability. I would there for recommend a 31-30-30, 30-31-30 or 30-30-31 quarter months format as having the highest preference among businessmen and government agencies

While it is true that many businesses and governments have weekly payrolls, these are usually aggregated by quarters in their reports and tax filings, and so 91 day quarters are the most preferred because months and weeks can be synchronized thereby

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Walter J Ziobro
In reply to this post by Karl Palmen

Dear Karl

With regards to the naming scheme, I chose names that already were used in other calendars that fell on the identical dates but that only differed in have one day less or more I'm trying to keep the naming scheme as economical as possible so that it can be applied to as many alternative months as possible I am open to reviewing the names that I have proposed if a more efficient scheme can be invented that can be applied as broadly.

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Christoph Päper-2
In reply to this post by Walter J Ziobro
Walter J Ziobro:
>
> Also, while I prefer the 31-30-30 quarter format because it reflects the month length bias in the current Gregorian calendar,

31:30:30 matches 6, 30:31:30 5 and 30:30:31 4 month lengths. Simpler 31:30 and 30:31 match 6 and 5 times, respectively. (One of their months is a single day too long in common years.) The best regular approximation, with 10 matches, is 31:30 for the first half and 30:31 for the second half of the year. Anyhow, I don’t see a huge benefit coming from any of these.

With Monday the first day of the week, when the “Thursday rule” is applied to any of the 31+2×30 patterns, it always results in a week layout of 4:5:4 per quarter. That’s a point in favor of 30:31:30, in my opinion.

> one neat advantage of the 30-30-31 format that H & H favor is that it can be truncated to 90 day periods of 3 30 day months that can be conveniently divided a large number of ways (…)

I explored that idea in the supplementary Shift Calendar <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Shift_Calendar>.
The month-less (holi)day could also be at the beginning of each quarter, though, which is particulary useful if you were using a Sunday week-start.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Karl Palmen
In reply to this post by Walter J Ziobro

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

Firstly it is 30-30-31-7 in HH calendar rather than 30-30-38.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar

 

Also I think the cost of the ’incompatibility’ depends little on its frequency. Also having months of 4 or 5 weeks is more convenient than having months beginning on different days of the week.

 

Also I think if one abandons the day of month number (by using week number instead) it will be easier to remember today’s date. I realise this is also possible with 30-30-31 day months or similar, if weeks are numbered 1-13 in each quarter. Then the month name becomes an optional extra and any of Walter’s month names could be used.

 

Karl

 

15(09(11

 

From: Walter J Ziobro [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 18 February 2016 11:02
To: [hidden email]; Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: RE: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

It is true that any leap week calendar will cause a month or year to have an length that is less comparable to others but with 30-31-37 or 30-31-38 length months this incompatibility happens only once every 5-6 years, whereas with months of 28-35 day lengths , this incompatibility is built into every quarter

Alas there is no perfect solution to this problem

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 karl.palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

Thank you Walter for your illuminating reply.

 

I have taken the position that the leap week eliminates the advantages of near equal months, including monthly payments.  

How are monthly payments made whenever a leap week occurs?

Could this answer be applied to months of 4 or 5 weeks?

 

Irv deals with this issue for Symmetry454 within

http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/Symmetry454-Calendar-FAQs.pdf

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: Walter J Ziobro [[hidden email]]
Sent: 17 February 2016 15:31
To: [hidden email]; Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

I believe that Hanke is an economist , and so, I understand his preference for months of closely equal lengths, rather than months of whole weeks. Sales revenues are typically reported by months in business, and sales and value added taxes usually reported and paid to governments by month. It is preferable to have months of closely equal lengths for purposes of comparability. I would there for recommend a 31-30-30, 30-31-30 or 30-30-31 quarter months format as having the highest preference among businessmen and government agencies

While it is true that many businesses and governments have weekly payrolls, these are usually aggregated by quarters in their reports and tax filings, and so 91 day quarters are the most preferred because months and weeks can be synchronized thereby

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Karl Palmen
In reply to this post by Walter J Ziobro

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

For Monday starting quarters 30-30-31 has months starting on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and each month has 26 non-Sundays (also 26 non-Saturdays)  as in the World Calendar (whose weeks begin on Sunday). This may be why 30-30-31 was chosen.

 

31-30-30 has months starting Monday, Thursday and Saturday with a variable number of non-Sundays.

30-31-30 has months starting Monday, Wednesday and Saturday with a variable number of non-Sundays.

 

Also I’m not sure whether HH has really has changed to Monday starting weeks.

The official Website still shows Sunday starting weeks, but appears to be out of date (pointing to 2012). The reference to Monday starting weeks is

http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar

 

 

Karl

 

15(09(11

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 18 February 2016 11:12
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

Also, while I prefer the 31-30-30 quarter format because it reflects the month length bias in the current Gregorian calendar, one neat advantage of the 30-30-31 format that H & H favor is that it can be truncated to 90 day periods of 3 30 day months that can be conveniently divided a large number of ways similar to the French Republican calendar.

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 karl.palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

Thank you Walter for your illuminating reply.

 

I have taken the position that the leap week eliminates the advantages of near equal months, including monthly payments.  

How are monthly payments made whenever a leap week occurs?

Could this answer be applied to months of 4 or 5 weeks?

 

Irv deals with this issue for Symmetry454 within

http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/Symmetry454-Calendar-FAQs.pdf

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: Walter J Ziobro [[hidden email]]
Sent: 17 February 2016 15:31
To: [hidden email]; Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

I believe that Hanke is an economist , and so, I understand his preference for months of closely equal lengths, rather than months of whole weeks. Sales revenues are typically reported by months in business, and sales and value added taxes usually reported and paid to governments by month. It is preferable to have months of closely equal lengths for purposes of comparability. I would there for recommend a 31-30-30, 30-31-30 or 30-30-31 quarter months format as having the highest preference among businessmen and government agencies

While it is true that many businesses and governments have weekly payrolls, these are usually aggregated by quarters in their reports and tax filings, and so 91 day quarters are the most preferred because months and weeks can be synchronized thereby

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Walter J Ziobro

Dear Karl

Here's a novel thought

Like the Mayans we could call the Sunday at the junction of two quarters day 0, and all the rest of the days of the quarter numbered 1-90, or 3 months of 30 days each This Sunday could belong to either quarter as to whether users prefer Sunday or Monday week starts

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Thursday, February 18, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

For Monday starting quarters 30-30-31 has months starting on Monday, Wednesday and Friday and each month has 26 non-Sundays (also 26 non-Saturdays)  as in the World Calendar (whose weeks begin on Sunday). This may be why 30-30-31 was chosen.

 

31-30-30 has months starting Monday, Thursday and Saturday with a variable number of non-Sundays.

30-31-30 has months starting Monday, Wednesday and Saturday with a variable number of non-Sundays.

 

Also I’m not sure whether HH has really has changed to Monday starting weeks.

The official Website still shows Sunday starting weeks, but appears to be out of date (pointing to 2012). The reference to Monday starting weeks is

http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar

 

 

Karl

 

15(09(11

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:CALNDR-L@...] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 18 February 2016 11:12
To: CALNDR-L@...
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

Also, while I prefer the 31-30-30 quarter format because it reflects the month length bias in the current Gregorian calendar, one neat advantage of the 30-30-31 format that H & H favor is that it can be truncated to 90 day periods of 3 30 day months that can be conveniently divided a large number of ways similar to the French Republican calendar.

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 karl.palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Walter and Calendar People

 

Thank you Walter for your illuminating reply.

 

I have taken the position that the leap week eliminates the advantages of near equal months, including monthly payments.  

How are monthly payments made whenever a leap week occurs?

Could this answer be applied to months of 4 or 5 weeks?

 

Irv deals with this issue for Symmetry454 within

http://individual.utoronto.ca/kalendis/Symmetry454-Calendar-FAQs.pdf

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: Walter J Ziobro [[hidden email]]
Sent: 17 February 2016 15:31
To: [hidden email]; Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Dear Karl

I believe that Hanke is an economist , and so, I understand his preference for months of closely equal lengths, rather than months of whole weeks. Sales revenues are typically reported by months in business, and sales and value added taxes usually reported and paid to governments by month. It is preferable to have months of closely equal lengths for purposes of comparability. I would there for recommend a 31-30-30, 30-31-30 or 30-30-31 quarter months format as having the highest preference among businessmen and government agencies

While it is true that many businesses and governments have weekly payrolls, these are usually aggregated by quarters in their reports and tax filings, and so 91 day quarters are the most preferred because months and weeks can be synchronized thereby

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail

 


On Wednesday, February 17, 2016 Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Christoph, Walter and Calendar People

 

I was unaware of the Hanke-Henry calendar applying for UT only, until this year.

 

According to the Wikipedia page

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar , which has been updated to show change of Year and Quarter start to Monday, the leap week belongs to a mini-month of its own called Xtr (or Extra). The calendar could be called the 30-30-31 Calendar with Xtr Week.

 

Also I’d suggest making the 31-day months end in ‘a’ instead of the 2nd, 5th, 8th and 11th months. The suggested names would be appropriate for Symmetry010.

 

My personal preference is for a leap week calendar where every month has either 4 or 5 weeks or just has quarters of normally 13 weeks and the week is explicitly part of a month or quarter. Then one does not have a daily count of both the day of week and day of month. Also the months of 4 or 5 weeks do not need their names modifying because the dates they appear in would have a different format as explained in earlier notes.

 

Another idea I had it to use quarters normally of 13 weeks and as an optional feature overlay months that either repeat every quarter or belong to a leap day calendar from which the leap day calendar can be derived by ISO-week type rule. An important feature is that there is no day of month number in the leap week calendar date. For example, today could then be Febra, Wednesday Week 7 Quarter 1 Year 2016 or using my suggested playing card calendar: Febra, Monday 7 of Clubs 2016.

 

Karl

 

15(09(10

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Walter J Ziobro
Sent: 16 February 2016 19:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

 

Christoph posted:

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Christoph Päper <[hidden email]>
To: CALNDR-L <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2016 6:43 pm
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

> https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/02/12/the-radical-plan-to-destroy-time-zones-2/

<http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar>

Ooh, when did the two professors came to their senses and changed the start of each week, quarter and year from a Sunday to a Monday? It now is simply the ISO 8601 week year with 30:30:31 layout, and their target adoption date moved a year from 2017 to 2018. Someone should update the Wikia page at <http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Hanke-Henry_Permanent_Calendar>.

The relevant note on the old site <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> isn’t all that obvious.

To which I reply:

Have they changed to a Monday start?   Then I already have alternative names for use with their revised calendar, all in accordance with the alternative naming schemes I have developed earlier and posted on the Wikia :

Janus (30ds), Febra (30ds) Marchus (31ds), Aprilus (30ds), Maya (30ds), Junus (31ds), Julus (30ds), Augusta (30ds), Septus (31ds), Octus (30ds), Nova (30ds), Decus (31/38ds).

The months Janus, Aprilus, Julus, and Octus have the same dates as for the Symmetry 010 Calendar..

The months Febra, Maya, Augusta, and Nova also fall on the same dates as in the Symmetry 010 Calendar, except that they each end one day sooner.

The months Marchus, Junus, Septus, and Decus are the same as those in the Leap Week World Calendar, except that they each have one additional day.

IMHO, there is no need to make any drastic legal change to the Gregorian Calendar.  All that is necessary is to allow linked alternatives with well defined and unique alternative names.  This would be similar to the way the IRS in the US allows alternative fiscal years, which already includes leap week calendars as an option, but does not provide any new names for alternative months. 



-Walter Ziobro
 

Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Christoph Päper-2
In reply to this post by Karl Palmen
Karl Palmen <[hidden email]>:
>
> Also I’m not sure whether HH has really has changed to Monday starting weeks.

I’m quoting <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> below:

>> Our new proposed starting date is 2018 January 1, Monday.  
>> Our previous efforts (week started on Sunday) are below.

Nevertheless, even the BBC article from 30 December 2015 talks about weeks starting Sunday and an adoption by 2017. In the Washington Post, which is mostly about time zones, it has changed to Monday, so it must be a very recent change.

The site directs readers to <http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar> which has contradicting information:

>> every year begins on Sunday, January 1.

in the section titled “What is the Hanke-Henry Permanent Calendar?” and

>> 11.) Why 2018 January 1?
>> Because in both the current Gregorian Calendar, and in the new HH calendar, that day is a Monday (the start of a 7-day cycle, which we call a "week.")

in the Q&A section.
Reply | Threaded
Open this post in threaded view
|  
Report Content as Inappropriate

Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Karl Palmen
Dear Christoph and Calendar People

One reply.

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Christoph Päper
Sent: 18 February 2016 14:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [tz] Hanke-Henry want to destroy tz

Karl Palmen <[hidden email]>:
>
> Also I’m not sure whether HH has really has changed to Monday starting weeks.

I’m quoting <http://henry.pha.jhu.edu/calendar.html> below:

>> Our new proposed starting date is 2018 January 1, Monday.  
>> Our previous efforts (week started on Sunday) are below.

KARL REPLIES: Perhaps, it should be:

>> Our new proposed starting date is 2018 January 1, Monday.  
>> Our previous efforts (week started on Sunday) are below and above.

The date shown at the start (Thu 17) is for a month starting on Tuesday, which indicates a Sunday starting quarter. The correct date for Monday starting quarter would be (Thu 16) as shown (before scrolling down) in
http://econographic.com/test/?utm_source=Hanke-Henry+Calendar 
which Wikipedia uses as a reference.


I suspect the change to Monday starting weeks was announced, before the web page was ready to be updated.

Karl

15(09(11
12
Loading...