Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

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Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Prof. Krishan Lal, Dr Sengupta, Karl & 
listserv sirs: 
I am hopeful that my calculations may not have annoyed, beyond your tolerance- a fact I had the conviction all through that my 886-year/327257days/11082 Lunation cycle (half of what [448-years/5541 moons] has been under discussion, was a perfect lunisolar cycle. I have been concerned as to why cannot this be perfected to current duration of Mean Lunation=29d12h44m2s .8775 i.e. 29.53958886 days; along with Mean Year=365+31/128=365.2421875 days.
image1.JPG
     I do this by using 30th Tithi in 5541st moon EXTENDED by 0.49287326 day instead of 0.49276126 day. This make using (163628.5+0.49287326=163628.99287326 days) in 5541 Lunation OR 29.53058886 days/Moon i.e. 29d12h44m2s.877504 the duration of current value, between TWO full moons or 'New moon to New 🌙'
     I was convinced that Karl was perhaps trying if I could bring my calculations to this result - I talked about my 896-years/11082 mooons, which has remained under discussion for a long time, sirs!
     In terms of Tithi', it works to: 364.864955 3571429 Tithi per year; each of 1 338/ 326919 day (1.001033895246223 day).
     I hope my above calculations are satisfactory to establish my, claim of THIS developed cycle, under investigation!
My regards,
10313, Ex-Flt Lt Brij Bhushan VIJ (Retd),
Author, Brij-Gregorian Modified Calendar
Friday, 2017 June 16H00:19 (decimal).

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 11, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Brij Bhushan metric VIJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sirs: 
I do hope you have received my last weeks mail pointing to my 'Improved value' of 448-years/5541 Lunation (half of my 896-year cycle) showing further improvement in achieved result for Mean Lunation to 29d12h 44m2s.7548 as against the current moon duration of 29.53058886 days 
image1.JPG
This certainly is an improvement over the known Lunation value of Hebrew lunar Molad=29d12h44m3s+(1/18m); and a record by itself.
My regards, 
Ex-FltLt Brij Bhushan VIJ, Author
Brij-Gregorian Modified calendar
Sunday, 2017 June 11H13:41 (decimal)

Sent from my iPhone

Begin forwarded message:

From: <[hidden email]>
Date: June 6, 2017 at 8:25:20 AM MST
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Dear Brij

-----Original Message-----
From: Brij Bhushan metric VIJ [[hidden email]]
Sent: 06 June 2017 16:06
To: Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: Re: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Karl, sir (in private):
True, the fractions MY=30 671/1536= 365.2421875 days; and ML=29 980/1847= 163629/5541 days i.e. 29d12h44m2s.98863  
I thank you, sir.
How is the phase calculation done in the Hebrew calendar?

I REPLY: Its molad interval is 29d 12h 44m 3 1/3s which is a little too long today and was based on a Babylonian calculation. The calendar has no solad, but instead strictly follows a 19-year cycle, which makes its mean year have about 365.2468 days.

Karl

16(10(12


I am not sure if results obtained by my >calculations, speak of the Mean Year=
(365+31/128)=365.2421875 days; and Mean
Mean Lunation=29d12h44m2s.7548...as
Thanks again,
My regards,
Ex-Flt Lt Brij Bhushan VIJ, Author
Brij-Gregorian Modified Calendar
Tuesday, 2017 June 06H08:08 (decimal)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 6, 2017, at 6:40 AM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

 I am not sure if results obtained by my calculations, speak of the Mean Year= (365+31/128)=365.2421875 days; and Mean Mean Lunation=29d12h44m2s.7548...as

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Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Karl Palmen

Dear Brij and Calendar People

 

I suggest that instead of using a tithi of 1 338/ 326919 day, divide the EXTENSION of 0.49287326 day or whatever by 5541 and add it to tithi of 1 338/ 326919 day and then simply use the resulting tithi instead?

 It would be simpler and produce less lunar jitter.

 

Brij mentioned 364.864955 3571429 Tithi per year. This arises for the tithi of  1 338/ 326919 day and the mean year of 365.2421875 days. It would be changed by the EXTENSION, which would reduce the number of tithis per year to a more accurate value.

 

Karl

 

16(10(22

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Sent: 16 June 2017 08:12
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

 

Prof. Krishan Lal, Dr Sengupta, Karl & 

listserv sirs: 

I am hopeful that my calculations may not have annoyed, beyond your tolerance- a fact I had the conviction all through that my 886-year/327257days/11082 Lunation cycle (half of what [448-years/5541 moons] has been under discussion, was a perfect lunisolar cycle. I have been concerned as to why cannot this be perfected to current duration of Mean Lunation=29d12h44m2s .8775 i.e. 29.53958886 days; along with Mean Year=365+31/128=365.2421875 days.

image1.JPG

     I do this by using 30th Tithi in 5541st moon EXTENDED by 0.49287326 day instead of 0.49276126 day. This make using (163628.5+0.49287326=163628.99287326 days) in 5541 Lunation OR 29.53058886 days/Moon i.e. 29d12h44m2s.877504 the duration of current value, between TWO full moons or 'New moon to New 🌙'

     I was convinced that Karl was perhaps trying if I could bring my calculations to this result - I talked about my 896-years/11082 mooons, which has remained under discussion for a long time, sirs!

     In terms of Tithi', it works to: 364.864955 3571429 Tithi per year; each of 1 338/ 326919 day (1.001033895246223 day).

     I hope my above calculations are satisfactory to establish my, claim of THIS developed cycle, under investigation!

My regards,

10313, Ex-Flt Lt Brij Bhushan VIJ (Retd),

Author, Brij-Gregorian Modified Calendar

Friday, 2017 June 16H00:19 (decimal).

 

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 11, 2017, at 2:06 PM, Brij Bhushan metric VIJ <[hidden email]> wrote:

Sirs: 

I do hope you have received my last weeks mail pointing to my 'Improved value' of 448-years/5541 Lunation (half of my 896-year cycle) showing further improvement in achieved result for Mean Lunation to 29d12h 44m2s.7548 as against the current moon duration of 29.53058886 days 
image1.JPG

This certainly is an improvement over the known Lunation value of Hebrew lunar Molad=29d12h44m3s+(1/18m); and a record by itself.

My regards, 

Ex-FltLt Brij Bhushan VIJ, Author

Brij-Gregorian Modified calendar

Sunday, 2017 June 11H13:41 (decimal)

 

Sent from my iPhone


Begin forwarded message:

From: <[hidden email]>
Date: June 6, 2017 at 8:25:20 AM MST
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: RE: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Dear Brij

-----Original Message-----
From: Brij Bhushan metric VIJ [[hidden email]]
Sent: 06 June 2017 16:06
To: Palmen, Karl (STFC,RAL,ISIS)
Subject: Re: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Karl, sir (in private):
True, the fractions MY=30 671/1536= 365.2421875 days; and ML=29 980/1847= 163629/5541 days i.e. 29d12h44m2s.98863  
I thank you, sir.
How is the phase calculation done in the Hebrew calendar?

I REPLY: Its molad interval is 29d 12h 44m 3 1/3s which is a little too long today and was based on a Babylonian calculation. The calendar has no solad, but instead strictly follows a 19-year cycle, which makes its mean year have about 365.2468 days.

Karl

16(10(12



I am not sure if results obtained by my >calculations, speak of the Mean Year=

(365+31/128)=365.2421875 days; and Mean

Mean Lunation=29d12h44m2s.7548...as

Thanks again,
My regards,
Ex-Flt Lt Brij Bhushan VIJ, Author
Brij-Gregorian Modified Calendar
Tuesday, 2017 June 06H08:08 (decimal)

Sent from my iPhone


On Jun 6, 2017, at 6:40 AM, "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]> wrote:

 

 I am not sure if results obtained by my calculations, speak of the Mean Year= (365+31/128)=365.2421875 days; and Mean Mean Lunation=29d12h44m2s.7548...as

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Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Karl,all sirs:
>I suggest that instead of using a tithi of <a href="tel:1%20338/%20326919" dir="ltr" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="0">1 >338/ 326919 day, divide the EXTENSION >of 0.49287326 day or whatever by 5541 >and add it to tithi of <a href="tel:1%20338/%20326919" dir="ltr" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="1">1 338/ 326919 day and >then simply use the resulting tithi instead?
My position remain with my investigated value for 896-year/11082 Lunation or 448-year/5541 Lunation with above addition once for 448-years & Twice (in 299th-year & 597th-years) getting current value for Mean Lunation:
896x365.2421875=327257 days +2*0.49287326=327257.98575246/11082=
29.530588860536 days or 29d12h44m2s.8
77550310774228, which I presume is the current value for duration between two moons.
More so this shall also mean to account for "self-absorbed moon" over 26842-years.
Further addition of 'distributed duration' may only mean to change my SIMPLE Tithi definition as : No.of days in 896-years/No. of Tithi in (11082*29.5 moons), as already pointed. 
I thank you, sir for re-suggestion.
Regards, 
Ex-Flt.Lt. Brij Bhushan Vij (Retd.), Author
Brij-Gregorian Modified calendar
Friday, 2017 June 16H08:96 (decimal)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 16, 2017, at 8:23 AM, Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I suggest that instead of using a tithi of 1 338/ 326919 day, divide the EXTENSION of 0.49287326 day or whatever by 5541 and add it to tithi of 1 338/ 326919 day and then simply use the resulting tithi instead?

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Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Amos Shapir-2
Hi Brij and calendar people,

What's the point of calculating and publishing calendrical values to such a great precision, just because your calculator can do it?  This calculation starts with data accurate to within 1 second, then shows a result with 10^-15 second precision!

This means that the fraction-of-second part is simply meaningless -- especially when considering that at the current rate of secular (non-periodic) change, the length of a lunation changes by 1 second every 3000 years, which means that the last digit in this result had been wrong just 1/10,000th of a second after being calculated.  If the message had left Brij's desk at the speed of light, it would be just 30km away by then...

In short, precision does not mean accuracy.

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 6:58 PM, Brij Bhushan metric VIJ <[hidden email]> wrote:
Karl,all sirs:
>I suggest that instead of using a tithi of <a href="tel:1%20338/%20326919" dir="ltr" target="_blank">1 >338/ 326919 day, divide the EXTENSION >of 0.49287326 day or whatever by 5541 >and add it to tithi of <a href="tel:1%20338/%20326919" dir="ltr" target="_blank">1 338/ 326919 day and >then simply use the resulting tithi instead?
My position remain with my investigated value for 896-year/11082 Lunation or 448-year/5541 Lunation with above addition once for 448-years & Twice (in 299th-year & 597th-years) getting current value for Mean Lunation:
896x365.2421875=327257 days +2*0.49287326=327257.98575246/11082=
29.530588860536 days or 29d12h44m2s.8
77550310774228, which I presume is the current value for duration between two moons.
More so this shall also mean to account for "self-absorbed moon" over 26842-years.
Further addition of 'distributed duration' may only mean to change my SIMPLE Tithi definition as : No.of days in 896-years/No. of Tithi in (11082*29.5 moons), as already pointed. 
I thank you, sir for re-suggestion.
Regards, 
Ex-Flt.Lt. Brij Bhushan Vij (Retd.), Author
Brij-Gregorian Modified calendar
Friday, 2017 June 16H08:96 (decimal)



--
Amos Shapir
 
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Historic Contribution Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Amos, dear:
>What's the point of calculating and >publishing calendrical values to such a >great precision, just because your >calculator can do it?
I think I have earned this to address you so, being of age 81/82. My son, born on a Friday- the 13th is now 53; and I admire his dedication to self, family & parents!
Accuracy & Precision - the two confusing words to mean perfection: unless Karl, calendar folks interpret differently. My motto - stop NOT till your goal was achieved. I earned a mention in Limca Book of Indian Records; now heading towards Guinness- you may agree, I have attempted to claim with my 'invented' 896/448-years cycle containing 11082/5541 Lunation by adding a short interval 0.49287326 day by extending just One Tithi; using 29 1/2 Tithi per moon, except the last (or any one) in the cycle.
Am I taking liberty, to say LOVE like I do to my son this - Fathers Day 2017 June 18.

image1.JPG (122K) Download Attachment
ATT00001.txt (498 bytes) Download Attachment
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Re: Historic Contribution Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Karl Palmen
Dear Brij, Amos and Calendar People

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Sent: 18 June 2017 01:26
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Historic Contribution Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Amos, dear:
>What's the point of calculating and
>publishing calendrical values to such a
>great precision, just because your
>calculator can do it?

I think I have earned this to address you so, being of age 81/82. My son, born on a Friday- the 13th is now 53; and I admire his dedication to self, family & parents!
Accuracy & Precision - the two confusing words to mean perfection: unless Karl, calendar folks interpret differently.

KARL REPLIES: Accuracy and precision are two quite different things:

Precision is how small a unit something like the molad interval is specified. The Hebrews have a precision of 3 1/3 second, Brij has a precision of a trillionth of a day = 86.4 nanoseconds for 29.530588860536 days.

Accuracy is how close the calendar agrees with actual moon-phases or seasons.

Amos also mentioned that the mean lunar month is falling by one second every 3000 years and so by 86.4 nanoseconds in a few minutes more than two hours.


BRIJ CONTINUED:
My motto - stop NOT till your goal was achieved. I earned a mention in Limca Book of Indian Records; now heading towards Guinness- you may agree, I have attempted to claim with my 'invented' 896/448-years cycle containing 11082/5541 Lunation by adding a short interval 0.49287326 day by extending just One Tithi; using 29 1/2 Tithi per moon, except the last (or any one) in the cycle.
Am I taking liberty, to say LOVE like I do to my son this - Father's Day 2017 June 18.

KARL REPLIES: I do hope Brij had a good Father's day.

Brij's attempt to 'claim' will not work unless he explains why it's a good idea. To me it seems to be pointless.

Brij has not explained how his calculation would be used in a calendar.
I guessed it could be applied to a calendar with a molad for the months and a solad for the years. What he seems to be suggesting is that the solad interval is exactly 365.2421875 days and the molad interval is exactly 29.5*(1 338/326919) = 327257/11082 = 29.5304999097... days, and once every 5541 months (or is it 448 years?) one molad interval is extended by 0.49287326 days to correct the accumulated error. This seems pointless to me, even though 5541 molad intervals without extension exactly equal 448 solad intervals. I don't think Brij has thought about how his idea would work out.


Karl

16(10(25
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Molar vs Tithi Re: Historic Contribution Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Karl, Amos & list sirs:
I thank you for wishing me & my children for treating us well on this Fathrr's Day. Yes, we had good day and also plan a fortnight outing with grand-children.
>The Hebrews have a precision of 3 1/3 >second, Brij has a precision of a trillionth of >a day = 86.4 nanoseconds for >29.530588860536 days.
   The Hebrew unit of 3 1/3 second=1/18 minute is 25920 units per day; while my Tithi of 1 338/326919 day, apart from the 'exact definition= No.of days in 896-years/No. of (Tithi =11082x29.5=326919), or also close to 968/967 day apart from 'projected Harappan 966/965 day' shall be 25947 'molad'.
  This is about 25947:25920::1 27/25920:1 ratio, for ease in verifying my results. A 30* Moon movement (for Hindu astronomy) shall be 63786 'molad' Units. Tithi should work, with 86311:86400 second per day, in 25820 molad, is my view.
  In the absence of Phase working, like Tithi working (progressive) in Hebrew calendar, I may not be able to 'satisfy curiosity' of calendar construction (software developers)'
BUT would argue: "If Harappan, Hindu, Hebrew astronomy have co-existed all along, where can be the reason to "Reject my calculated results" in favor against my format of 'Modified Gregorian calendar'! I reproduce the format below:

image1.JPG (352K) Download Attachment
ATT00001.txt (10 bytes) Download Attachment
image2.PNG (76K) Download Attachment
ATT00002.txt (780 bytes) Download Attachment
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Re: Molar vs Tithi Re: Historic Contribution Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Karl Palmen
Dear Brij and Calendar People

I'd advise Brij to dump his tithi (2/59 lunar month) equal to 1 338/326919.

Karl

16(10(26

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Sent: 20 June 2017 12:51
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Molar vs Tithi Re: Historic Contribution Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Karl, Amos & list sirs:
I thank you for wishing me & my children for treating us well on this Fathrr's Day. Yes, we had good day and also plan a fortnight outing with grand-children.
>The Hebrews have a precision of 3 1/3 >second, Brij has a precision of a trillionth of >a day = 86.4 nanoseconds for >29.530588860536 days.
   The Hebrew unit of 3 1/3 second=1/18 minute is 25920 units per day; while my Tithi of 1 338/326919 day, apart from the 'exact definition= No.of days in 896-years/No. of (Tithi =11082x29.5=326919), or also close to 968/967 day apart from 'projected Harappan 966/965 day' shall be 25947 'molad'.
  This is about 25947:25920::1 27/25920:1 ratio, for ease in verifying my results. A 30* Moon movement (for Hindu astronomy) shall be 63786 'molad' Units. Tithi should work, with 86311:86400 second per day, in 25820 molad, is my view.
  In the absence of Phase working, like Tithi working (progressive) in Hebrew calendar, I may not be able to 'satisfy curiosity' of calendar construction (software developers)'
BUT would argue: "If Harappan, Hindu, Hebrew astronomy have co-existed all along, where can be the reason to "Reject my calculated results" in favor against my format of 'Modified Gregorian calendar'! I reproduce the format below:
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Yet another 968/967 day Re: Molar vs Tithi Re: Historic Contribution Re: Current Mean Lunation Re: Hebrew Lunar Calendar vs Brij-calculations Fwd: Tithi & MY/ML Results Re: molad-solad calendar

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
Hello, Karl sir:
>I'd advise Brij to dump his tithi (2/59 lunar >month) equal to <a href="tel:1%20338/326919" dir="ltr" x-apple-data-detectors="true" x-apple-data-detectors-type="telephone" x-apple-data-detectors-result="0">1 338/326919.
I have been examining, yet another simple Tithi value is 968/967, which can be used. But, my value 1 338/326919 with (11082x29 1/2)=326919 Tithi is easy to define as: 
No.of days in 896-years/No.of Tithi in 11082 moons. Adding the 'extra duration =0.49287326' day in 448-years x365.2422875 days results to almost current [29d12h44m2s.877504]. 
I wonder why did you suggest that I DUMP my investigated "phase/Tithi" value, I believe to have been in vogue in Harappa calendar!
Regards,
Ex-Flt Lt Brij Bhushan VIJ (Retd), Author
Brij-Gregorian Modified Calendar
Saturday, 2017 June 24H10:66 (decimal)

Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 20, 2017, at 8:05 AM, Karl Palmen <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd advise Brij to dump his tithi (2/59 lunar month) equal to 1 338/326919.