Christian holidays to consider

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Christian holidays to consider

Christoph Päper-2
Is there a comprehensive list of Christian holidays that calendar designers should consider when asserting the viability of their reform proposal?

The Pope and therefore the Catholic Church is the originator and arguably maintainer of the Gregorian Calendar. Its main part, the solar 365+-day, 12-month calendar with a 400-year leap cycle does not suffice to determine all Christian holidays. Those that need the lunar-based Computus occur on fixed days of the week and in a constant distance to each other; most of them belong to the Easter Cycle. With rules from ISO 8601 applied, each of them falls into one of five calendar weeks (or very rarely in a sixth).

<http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Holiday#Easter>
<http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/ISO_week_date#Week_number>

In a leap week calendar which is compatible with ISO 8601, these holidays therefore have obvious corresponding (moving) dates.

Many other holidays are universally understood to be specified to occur on a fixed day-month date in the Gregorian calendar, e.g. Christmas on 25 December. Except for the leap day, they have fixed distances from each other and a certain time span to a different holiday may be the reason for choosing a date, e.g. Annunciation on 25 March is exactly 9 nominal months, i.e. the length of a pregnancy, before Christmas. Some other holidays, however, have various local definitions which may include specifications like the n-th or last x-day before or after a particular month or in relation to some arbitrary anchor date in day-month format, e.g. the Advent Sundays before 25 December.

All Western civil holidays that I know of also use such definitions. For bank holidays in some jurisdictions, observances may be moved away from (or towards) the local weekend. Likewise, some Christian holidays have special rules for when they would coincide with another, moving holiday, e.g. the Feast of the Annunciation is delayed if it otherwise fell within the Holy Week before Easter.

There are several ways to carry over these definitions into an alternative calendar proposal and a single approach certainly does not fit all. For birthdays and other anniversaries (like most national holidays), the best solution may be to determine the original date in the proposed calendar applied proleptically.
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Re: Christian holidays to consider

Victor Engel
Dear Christoph,

I'm sure there are plenty of liturgical calendars online and probably a list on the Catholic Encyclopedia. However, I would probably use this site mainly because I use it a lot in my genealogy research to my Norwegian ancestors.

It's designed for movable feasts but also includes non-movable feasts.

Norway's church over the years covered is Lutheran, but the same calendar is uses as for the Catholic church. There are probably other dates in other denominations, like July 24, Pioneer Day in the Mormon church.

Of course, there is also the Eastern Orthodox church, who still use the Julian calendar. Probably any reform wouldn't be adopted by then anyway, so I'm not sure you need to worry about them.

Victor

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 7:59 AM, Christoph Päper <[hidden email]> wrote:
Is there a comprehensive list of Christian holidays that calendar designers should consider when asserting the viability of their reform proposal?

The Pope and therefore the Catholic Church is the originator and arguably maintainer of the Gregorian Calendar. Its main part, the solar 365+-day, 12-month calendar with a 400-year leap cycle does not suffice to determine all Christian holidays. Those that need the lunar-based Computus occur on fixed days of the week and in a constant distance to each other; most of them belong to the Easter Cycle. With rules from ISO 8601 applied, each of them falls into one of five calendar weeks (or very rarely in a sixth).

<http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/Holiday#Easter>
<http://calendars.wikia.com/wiki/ISO_week_date#Week_number>

In a leap week calendar which is compatible with ISO 8601, these holidays therefore have obvious corresponding (moving) dates.

Many other holidays are universally understood to be specified to occur on a fixed day-month date in the Gregorian calendar, e.g. Christmas on 25 December. Except for the leap day, they have fixed distances from each other and a certain time span to a different holiday may be the reason for choosing a date, e.g. Annunciation on 25 March is exactly 9 nominal months, i.e. the length of a pregnancy, before Christmas. Some other holidays, however, have various local definitions which may include specifications like the n-th or last x-day before or after a particular month or in relation to some arbitrary anchor date in day-month format, e.g. the Advent Sundays before 25 December.

All Western civil holidays that I know of also use such definitions. For bank holidays in some jurisdictions, observances may be moved away from (or towards) the local weekend. Likewise, some Christian holidays have special rules for when they would coincide with another, moving holiday, e.g. the Feast of the Annunciation is delayed if it otherwise fell within the Holy Week before Easter.

There are several ways to carry over these definitions into an alternative calendar proposal and a single approach certainly does not fit all. For birthdays and other anniversaries (like most national holidays), the best solution may be to determine the original date in the proposed calendar applied proleptically.

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Re: Christian holidays to consider

Christoph Päper-2
Victor Engel <[hidden email]>:
>
> I'm sure there are plenty of liturgical calendars online and probably a
> list on the Catholic Encyclopedia.

There surely are, but for improving a reformed calendar design, one would not need actual past dates of holidays but abstract definitions for their date of observance. It would also help if

I once tried to compile <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Roman_Calendar> etc. into something useful, but gave up soon. <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bY5OOSJKEQDsDE_hr3tbs78GrfAodg0uBeIDE_klCEg/edit?usp=sharing>

> Of course, there is also the Eastern Orthodox church, who still use the
> Julian calendar. Probably any reform wouldn't be adopted by then anyway, so
> I'm not sure you need to worry about them.

Actually, I think that the Catholic Church could only be convinced nowadays to make changes to the calendar if the vast majority of its other major users agreed and perhaps some remaining non-users would consider converting. There are ongoing efforts to settle on a common date for Easter (and thus almost all movable feasts) to partially revert some schisms. I believe a common new calendar that supported a fixed date for Easter would be the best solution to achieve this goal, but I'm afraid that this option isn't even considered within the WCC because it would be an even larger undertaking with much less prospect for a consensus.
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Religious vs Re: Christian holidays to consider

Brij Bhushan metric VIJ
In reply to this post by Christoph Päper-2
Christoph Paper, cc sirs:
>The Pope and therefore the Catholic Church is the originator and arguably maintainer of the Gregorian Calendar. Its main part, the solar 365+-day, 12-month calendar with a 400-year leap cycle does not suffice to determine all Christian >holidays.
I may not 'comment' the working & following of Church holidays - the fact that most holidays fell on dates/days falling on other than Sunday was a matter of 'convinience' so the community could gather on the Sunday Mass; like Hindus going to temple on Tuesday and Muslims going to Mosque on "Jumma/Friday". Not that other days cannot be chosen, the observance was restricted to attract the 'following and their attendance'; as a knit building exercise.
Adherence & strictness grew with rigidity; in becoming a way of life. In short, it is the WILL of community, that need priority in fixing Easter, Diwali or religious festivities- in any reformed version of calendar to be. Lunar occurance of BCE/AD dates can be reconciled among religious heads, without being hardliners/stiffer attitude shall go a long way, I presume!
History has given humanity the chance to improve upon; it is now our responsibility to 'understand, how not to miss this granted lease that men have wanted for since over 2000-years especially since 1582 Papal Bull

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Re: Christian holidays to consider

Victor Engel
In reply to this post by Christoph Päper-2
Dear Christoph,

Just one small data point, one of my mother's favorites. I don't know very many of the days, but I know October 4 because that is my daughter's birthday. It is missing from your spreadsheet. On October 4, people all over the world will be celebrating the feast day of the Patron Saint of Animals, Saint Francis of Assisi.

Victor

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Christoph Päper <[hidden email]> wrote:
Victor Engel <[hidden email]>:
>
> I'm sure there are plenty of liturgical calendars online and probably a
> list on the Catholic Encyclopedia.

There surely are, but for improving a reformed calendar design, one would not need actual past dates of holidays but abstract definitions for their date of observance. It would also help if

I once tried to compile <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Roman_Calendar> etc. into something useful, but gave up soon. <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bY5OOSJKEQDsDE_hr3tbs78GrfAodg0uBeIDE_klCEg/edit?usp=sharing>

> Of course, there is also the Eastern Orthodox church, who still use the
> Julian calendar. Probably any reform wouldn't be adopted by then anyway, so
> I'm not sure you need to worry about them.

Actually, I think that the Catholic Church could only be convinced nowadays to make changes to the calendar if the vast majority of its other major users agreed and perhaps some remaining non-users would consider converting. There are ongoing efforts to settle on a common date for Easter (and thus almost all movable feasts) to partially revert some schisms. I believe a common new calendar that supported a fixed date for Easter would be the best solution to achieve this goal, but I'm afraid that this option isn't even considered within the WCC because it would be an even larger undertaking with much less prospect for a consensus.

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Re: Christian holidays to consider

Victor Engel
P.S. I think there are probably a dozen or so saints associated with each day in the calendar. Would all these get mapped to new days in the new calendar?



On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 1:42 PM, Victor Engel <[hidden email]> wrote:
Dear Christoph,

Just one small data point, one of my mother's favorites. I don't know very many of the days, but I know October 4 because that is my daughter's birthday. It is missing from your spreadsheet. On October 4, people all over the world will be celebrating the feast day of the Patron Saint of Animals, Saint Francis of Assisi.

Victor

On Mon, Jul 24, 2017 at 9:16 AM, Christoph Päper <[hidden email]> wrote:
Victor Engel <[hidden email]>:
>
> I'm sure there are plenty of liturgical calendars online and probably a
> list on the Catholic Encyclopedia.

There surely are, but for improving a reformed calendar design, one would not need actual past dates of holidays but abstract definitions for their date of observance. It would also help if

I once tried to compile <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Roman_Calendar> etc. into something useful, but gave up soon. <https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bY5OOSJKEQDsDE_hr3tbs78GrfAodg0uBeIDE_klCEg/edit?usp=sharing>

> Of course, there is also the Eastern Orthodox church, who still use the
> Julian calendar. Probably any reform wouldn't be adopted by then anyway, so
> I'm not sure you need to worry about them.

Actually, I think that the Catholic Church could only be convinced nowadays to make changes to the calendar if the vast majority of its other major users agreed and perhaps some remaining non-users would consider converting. There are ongoing efforts to settle on a common date for Easter (and thus almost all movable feasts) to partially revert some schisms. I believe a common new calendar that supported a fixed date for Easter would be the best solution to achieve this goal, but I'm afraid that this option isn't even considered within the WCC because it would be an even larger undertaking with much less prospect for a consensus.


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Re: Christian holidays to consider

Christoph Päper-2
In reply to this post by Victor Engel
Victor Engel:
>
> Just one small data point, one of my mother's favorites. I don't know very
> many of the days, but I know October 4 because that is my daughter's
> birthday. It is missing from your spreadsheet. On October 4, people all
> over the world will be celebrating the feast day of the Patron Saint of
> Animals, Saint Francis of Assisi.

It's actually not missing but was filtered away, because its "Highest rite level" is "Memorial". They go Feast > Solemnity > Optional Solemnity > Memorial > Optional Memorial > (empty).
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Re: Christian holidays to consider

Victor Engel
Ah, OK. That makes sense.

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Christoph Päper <[hidden email]> wrote:
Victor Engel:
>
> Just one small data point, one of my mother's favorites. I don't know very
> many of the days, but I know October 4 because that is my daughter's
> birthday. It is missing from your spreadsheet. On October 4, people all
> over the world will be celebrating the feast day of the Patron Saint of
> Animals, Saint Francis of Assisi.

It's actually not missing but was filtered away, because its "Highest rite level" is "Memorial". They go Feast > Solemnity > Optional Solemnity > Memorial > Optional Memorial > (empty).

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Re: Christian holidays to consider

Sepp Rothwangl
Nothing in the christian calendar makes sense in a rational way!
The weekdays are pure astrological superstition from ancient Babylon.
The annual start of the year is coincidence and based on the lunar phase of 46 BC.
The counting of the years according to A.D. is a world’s end plot.
The date of Easter is corrupted.
The names day (based on Martyr) is a fraud.
The length of the year according to the leap rule in incorrect.

This calendar has no longer validity! Its only sense was to get money for an abusive church.

Servus

Sepp Rothwangl, CEP -240.201
[hidden email]
www.calendersign.com

Am 26.07.2017 um 00:51 schrieb Victor Engel <[hidden email]>:

Ah, OK. That makes sense.

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 5:28 PM, Christoph Päper <[hidden email]> wrote:
Victor Engel:
>
> Just one small data point, one of my mother's favorites. I don't know very
> many of the days, but I know October 4 because that is my daughter's
> birthday. It is missing from your spreadsheet. On October 4, people all
> over the world will be celebrating the feast day of the Patron Saint of
> Animals, Saint Francis of Assisi.

It's actually not missing but was filtered away, because its "Highest rite level" is "Memorial". They go Feast > Solemnity > Optional Solemnity > Memorial > Optional Memorial > (empty).


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Re: Christian holidays to consider

Christoph Päper-2
Sepp ROTHWANGL <[hidden email]>:
>
> Nothing in the christian calendar makes sense in a rational way!

That's an overly blunt statement and obviously exaggerated. Many features are the results of rational decisions, but we would probably assess the benefits and malefits differently nowadays and thus settle on some different solutions.

> The weekdays are pure astrological superstition from ancient Babylon.

Do you mean the names or the number of days per week? If it's the latter, seven may be an arbitrary choice, but it has proven to work reasonably well.

I always wondered how the heathen deities could survive throughout the ages in the names of days and months in much of Christian Europe.

> The annual start of the year is coincidence and based on the lunar phase of 46 BC.

Perhaps, but any more motivated choice would also be arbitrary or not applicable to the whole world.

> The counting of the years according to A.D. is a world’s end plot.

I'd count the era (i.e. leap cycle) separately, as in E-YYY, but a continuous year count also works. The epoch is, again, rather arbitrary. Many local calendar variants still in active use only differ by an integer offset from that.

> The date of Easter is corrupted.

Again, there are multiple possible definitions where one is not more correct than the other. It's just confusing that the dates of Easter and Christmas are specified in such different ways.

> The names day (based on Martyr) is a fraud.

It's a silly folk tradition, but harmless and of no great importance.

> The length of the year according to the leap rule in incorrect.

It's really good enough.

> This calendar has no longer validity!

Tradition is important. It should be and can only be broken successfully if it gets replaced by something that feels better to a majority.

I'm fascinated by rationally pure and obscurely creative calendar designs, but I'm really just interested in reform proposals that could actually work, which means they need relatable benefits and must offer a smooth transition, because no benefit is huge enough for a hard cut, obviously.

That's why I was asking the question. For the foreseeable future, you can't get a calendar reform without getting the major Christian churches onboard early on. That's whether you and I like it or not.
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