Blank Day

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Blank Day

Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC

Dear Rick & Calendar People

 

I’ve been wondering why the day in some proposed calendar reforms that is either outside the 7-day week or extends the 7-day week is called a blank day.

 

This day is called a blank day on the Home Page of Calendar Reform

http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/calendar-reform.html

 

This web page says

The blank day concept was suggested originally, perhaps, by Rev. Hugh Jones, an American colonist from Maryland writing in 1745 under the pseudonym of Hirossa Ap-Iccim.

Were those days referred to as blank days then or did Rick McCarty invent the term?”

 

Within each calendar reform proposal the blank day may be referred to by a different name that applies only to that proposal, for example Worldsday in the World Calendar, and so when discussing calendar reform in general a generic name is required. Did Rick invent the name of blank day as this generic name or did someone use the term earlier on?

Perhaps, James Colligan invented the term when proposing the Pax Calendar (a calendar without blank days).

http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/colligan.html

 

Why was the name blank day chosen?

Perhaps because in some calendar reforms such a day had no day of week name.

 

If I search for blank day on the web I get images of calendars with a blank space for each day and nothing to do with calendar reform, except the Perennial Calendar article in Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_calendar

 

 

Now for my opinion: I never liked the name blank day. I thought of an alternative name:  Extraday. This is written as a single word capitalised just like a day of week name, because it serves as a substitute for a day of week name (filling in the blank). Extra can mean either outside or additional.

 

Karl

 

17(04(19

 

 

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Re: Blank Day

Victor Engel
Dear Karl,

How about Supernumeraryday?

Just joking. That's too long. But maybe it could be abbreviated to Superday. Down the road, as people get confused about etymology, another day, Subday could be added (subtracted?), to do the inverse.

Victor

On Fri, May 4, 2018 at 6:59 AM, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC <[hidden email]> wrote:

Dear Rick & Calendar People

 

I’ve been wondering why the day in some proposed calendar reforms that is either outside the 7-day week or extends the 7-day week is called a blank day.

 

This day is called a blank day on the Home Page of Calendar Reform

http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/calendar-reform.html

 

This web page says

The blank day concept was suggested originally, perhaps, by Rev. Hugh Jones, an American colonist from Maryland writing in 1745 under the pseudonym of Hirossa Ap-Iccim.

Were those days referred to as blank days then or did Rick McCarty invent the term?”

 

Within each calendar reform proposal the blank day may be referred to by a different name that applies only to that proposal, for example Worldsday in the World Calendar, and so when discussing calendar reform in general a generic name is required. Did Rick invent the name of blank day as this generic name or did someone use the term earlier on?

Perhaps, James Colligan invented the term when proposing the Pax Calendar (a calendar without blank days).

http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/colligan.html

 

Why was the name blank day chosen?

Perhaps because in some calendar reforms such a day had no day of week name.

 

If I search for blank day on the web I get images of calendars with a blank space for each day and nothing to do with calendar reform, except the Perennial Calendar article in Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_calendar

 

 

Now for my opinion: I never liked the name blank day. I thought of an alternative name:  Extraday. This is written as a single word capitalised just like a day of week name, because it serves as a substitute for a day of week name (filling in the blank). Extra can mean either outside or additional.

 

Karl

 

17(04(19

 

 


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Blank Day

McCarty, Richard
In reply to this post by Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC

Karl;


Thanks for addressing this to me.


I did not invent the term "blank day." I picked it up from reading Elisabeth Achellis's works on calendar reform, published in the 1950s. The term was apparently in common use among calendar reformers in the 1930s and 40s, and used to refer, generically, to a calendar day not designated as a regular week day.

Competition among reform proposals would have intensified when, in 1937, the World Calendar was proposed in the League of Nations for international adoption. Miss Achellis worked tirelessly for the World Calendar's adoption by the United Nations, in the 1950s. With a collection of competing reform proposals that would excise one or two calendar-days from the seven-day cycle of the week, each proposing unique names for those days, it would have been convenient to coin a common term for the idea of such days.

I find "blank day" appearing in an article from the Journal of Calendar Reform (1944) (http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/13-month.htm), which refers to Comte's "Postivist Calendar" (1849). The author might have been Miss Achellis. I'll have to check. But I do not think that Comte used the term. In that article, the invention of a "blank day" is attributed to Mastrofini. I doubt he used the term, however. I know that Mastrofini used two terms: "extra-calendrical day," for the annual year-end day; and "intercalary day," added in leap year. The latter term, and its cognate, "intercalation," are common terms for regular calendar corrections, such as the 29th of February. I have seen "intercalary day," used as a synonym for "blank day." The blank-day idea was first expressed decades prior to Mastrofini, by Rev. Hugh Jones (Hirossa Ap-Iccum), who seems to be its inventor. I do not find that Jones used "blank day," either.

Moses Cotsworth, in the 1920s, referred to the blank day at year's end as "Year-day"; and, as far as I can tell, he had no name for the extra day in leap year.

I don't think that "blank day" is an especially apt term; but it does have the advantage of being generic -- at least more generic than a neologism like "Extraday." To me, that suggestion sounds like a term coined by a calendar reformer as the name of his calendar's blank day, like Cotsworth's "Year-day." The term "blank day" is generic enough to cover both the annual extra day and the leap-year extra day. "Extraday" could have this advantage too.

Off the top of my head, I'd propose "non-week day" as a replacement for "blank day," -- but it's only a slight improvement. A less common term for blank day that I have encountered is "off-calendar day."


--Rick



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Re: Blank Day

Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC

Dear Rick and Calendar People

 

Thank you very much Rick for your reply. It is just what I wanted.

 

For Extradays, I have thought of the blank day that occurs every year as the Annual Extraday and the leap day as the Leap Extraday. I’ve not seen mention of such things as annual blank day or leap blank day.

 

Karl

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of McCarty, Richard
Sent: 04 May 2018 16:23
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Blank Day

 

Karl;

 

Thanks for addressing this to me.

 

I did not invent the term "blank day." I picked it up from reading Elisabeth Achellis's works on calendar reform, published in the 1950s. The term was apparently in common use among calendar reformers in the 1930s and 40s, and used to refer, generically, to a calendar day not designated as a regular week day.

Competition among reform proposals would have intensified when, in 1937, the World Calendar was proposed in the League of Nations for international adoption. Miss Achellis worked tirelessly for the World Calendar's adoption by the United Nations, in the 1950s. With a collection of competing reform proposals that would excise one or two calendar-days from the seven-day cycle of the week, each proposing unique names for those days, it would have been convenient to coin a common term for the idea of such days.

I find "blank day" appearing in an article from the Journal of Calendar Reform (1944) (http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/13-month.htm), which refers to Comte's "Postivist Calendar" (1849). The author might have been Miss Achellis. I'll have to check. But I do not think that Comte used the term. In that article, the invention of a "blank day" is attributed to Mastrofini. I doubt he used the term, however. I know that Mastrofini used two terms: "extra-calendrical day," for the annual year-end day; and "intercalary day," added in leap year. The latter term, and its cognate, "intercalation," are common terms for regular calendar corrections, such as the 29th of February. I have seen "intercalary day," used as a synonym for "blank day." The blank-day idea was first expressed decades prior to Mastrofini, by Rev. Hugh Jones (Hirossa Ap-Iccum), who seems to be its inventor. I do not find that Jones used "blank day," either.

Moses Cotsworth, in the 1920s, referred to the blank day at year's end as "Year-day"; and, as far as I can tell, he had no name for the extra day in leap year.

I don't think that "blank day" is an especially apt term; but it does have the advantage of being generic -- at least more generic than a neologism like "Extraday." To me, that suggestion sounds like a term coined by a calendar reformer as the name of his calendar's blank day, like Cotsworth's "Year-day." The term "blank day" is generic enough to cover both the annual extra day and the leap-year extra day. "Extraday" could have this advantage too.

Off the top of my head, I'd propose "non-week day" as a replacement for "blank day," -- but it's only a slight improvement. A less common term for blank day that I have encountered is "off-calendar day."

 

--Rick

 

 

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Re: Blank Day

Otero, Daniel
In reply to this post by McCarty, Richard

May I offer a more scientific term than “blank day”? How about anhebdomadal day; in Greek this means literally “not part of the week”.

 

--Danny Otero

 

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List <[hidden email]> on behalf of "McCarty, Richard" <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, May 4, 2018 at 11:23 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Blank Day

 

Karl;

 

Thanks for addressing this to me.

 

I did not invent the term "blank day." I picked it up from reading Elisabeth Achellis's works on calendar reform, published in the 1950s. The term was apparently in common use among calendar reformers in the 1930s and 40s, and used to refer, generically, to a calendar day not designated as a regular week day.

Competition among reform proposals would have intensified when, in 1937, the World Calendar was proposed in the League of Nations for international adoption. Miss Achellis worked tirelessly for the World Calendar's adoption by the United Nations, in the 1950s. With a collection of competing reform proposals that would excise one or two calendar-days from the seven-day cycle of the week, each proposing unique names for those days, it would have been convenient to coin a common term for the idea of such days.

I find "blank day" appearing in an article from the Journal of Calendar Reform (1944) (http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/13-month.htm), which refers to Comte's "Postivist Calendar" (1849). The author might have been Miss Achellis. I'll have to check. But I do not think that Comte used the term. In that article, the invention of a "blank day" is attributed to Mastrofini. I doubt he used the term, however. I know that Mastrofini used two terms: "extra-calendrical day," for the annual year-end day; and "intercalary day," added in leap year. The latter term, and its cognate, "intercalation," are common terms for regular calendar corrections, such as the 29th of February. I have seen "intercalary day," used as a synonym for "blank day." The blank-day idea was first expressed decades prior to Mastrofini, by Rev. Hugh Jones (Hirossa Ap-Iccum), who seems to be its inventor. I do not find that Jones used "blank day," either.

Moses Cotsworth, in the 1920s, referred to the blank day at year's end as "Year-day"; and, as far as I can tell, he had no name for the extra day in leap year.

I don't think that "blank day" is an especially apt term; but it does have the advantage of being generic -- at least more generic than a neologism like "Extraday." To me, that suggestion sounds like a term coined by a calendar reformer as the name of his calendar's blank day, like Cotsworth's "Year-day." The term "blank day" is generic enough to cover both the annual extra day and the leap-year extra day. "Extraday" could have this advantage too.

Off the top of my head, I'd propose "non-week day" as a replacement for "blank day," -- but it's only a slight improvement. A less common term for blank day that I have encountered is "off-calendar day."

 

--Rick

 

 

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Re: Blank Day

Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC
Dear Daniel & Calendar People


I prefer the Latin-based extrahebdomadal or extraseptimanal in the same vain as extracalendarial, but applying only to the week. Note that both have seven built in them so would not apply to the 5 or 6 extra days in the French Republican Calendar such days could be described as extradecadal.


Karl


________________________________
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List <[hidden email]> on behalf of Otero, Daniel <[hidden email]>
Sent: 04 May 2018 17:53
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Blank Day

May I offer a more scientific term than “blank day”? How about anhebdomadal day; in Greek this means literally “not part of the week”.

--Danny Otero

From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List <[hidden email]> on behalf of "McCarty, Richard" <[hidden email]>
Reply-To: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List <[hidden email]>
Date: Friday, May 4, 2018 at 11:23 AM
To: "[hidden email]" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Blank Day


Karl;



Thanks for addressing this to me.



I did not invent the term "blank day." I picked it up from reading Elisabeth Achellis's works on calendar reform, published in the 1950s. The term was apparently in common use among calendar reformers in the 1930s and 40s, and used to refer, generically, to a calendar day not designated as a regular week day.

Competition among reform proposals would have intensified when, in 1937, the World Calendar was proposed in the League of Nations for international adoption. Miss Achellis worked tirelessly for the World Calendar's adoption by the United Nations, in the 1950s. With a collection of competing reform proposals that would excise one or two calendar-days from the seven-day cycle of the week, each proposing unique names for those days, it would have been convenient to coin a common term for the idea of such days.

I find "blank day" appearing in an article from the Journal of Calendar Reform (1944) (http://myweb.ecu.edu/mccartyr/13-month.htm), which refers to Comte's "Postivist Calendar" (1849). The author might have been Miss Achellis. I'll have to check. But I do not think that Comte used the term. In that article, the invention of a "blank day" is attributed to Mastrofini. I doubt he used the term, however. I know that Mastrofini used two terms: "extra-calendrical day," for the annual year-end day; and "intercalary day," added in leap year. The latter term, and its cognate, "intercalation," are common terms for regular calendar corrections, such as the 29th of February. I have seen "intercalary day," used as a synonym for "blank day." The blank-day idea was first expressed decades prior to Mastrofini, by Rev. Hugh Jones (Hirossa Ap-Iccum), who seems to be its inventor. I do not find that Jones used "blank day," either.

Moses Cotsworth, in the 1920s, referred to the blank day at year's end as "Year-day"; and, as far as I can tell, he had no name for the extra day in leap year.

I don't think that "blank day" is an especially apt term; but it does have the advantage of being generic -- at least more generic than a neologism like "Extraday." To me, that suggestion sounds like a term coined by a calendar reformer as the name of his calendar's blank day, like Cotsworth's "Year-day." The term "blank day" is generic enough to cover both the annual extra day and the leap-year extra day. "Extraday" could have this advantage too.

Off the top of my head, I'd propose "non-week day" as a replacement for "blank day," -- but it's only a slight improvement. A less common term for blank day that I have encountered is "off-calendar day."



--Rick
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Re: Blank Day

Michael H Deckers
    On 2018-05-10 14:34, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC wrote:

> I prefer the Latin-based extrahebdomadal or extraseptimanal in the same vain as extracalendarial, but applying only to the week.

    I prefer the intra-abdominal, or the Greek-based aseptic in my vein,
even if not calendrical.

    Michael Deckers.
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Re: Blank Day

Michael Ossipoff
Whatever you call blank-days, they make nonsense of the week, and are unnecessary, given the availability of theleap-wee solution.

And let's not forget the little lesson of the World-Calendar, and the sound and decisive rejection of the unpopular blank-days proposal.

Jamison, you said that unpopularity is no problem, because all you have to do is coercively impose blank-days (along with abolition of the 7-day week) on people who don't want it. You said the government will do that. I asked "Why and when?"  Why would our government coerce that, and when?   ...particularly if, as you claimed, the calendar-change you speak of will help to end the current societal ruling-order? You didn't answer.

People now are proposing leap-week calendars because of the lesson that was learned from the experience of the World-Calendar and the unpopularity and rejection of its blank-days. As I said, some churches had even offered to support the new calendar if it used leap-weeks instead of blank-days.

Michael Ossipoff.
.

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Michael H Deckers <[hidden email]> wrote:
   On 2018-05-10 14:34, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC wrote:

I prefer the Latin-based extrahebdomadal or extraseptimanal in the same vain as extracalendarial, but applying only to the week.

   I prefer the intra-abdominal, or the Greek-based aseptic in my vein, even if not calendrical.

   Michael Deckers.

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Re: Blank Day

Amos Shapir-2
One lesson which can be learned from centuries of calendar reforms, is that while there is no way to know which ideas may succeed, it's quite clear that there is a way to sure failure: Trying to reform everything -- not just how days and years are counted, but also how people schedule their time, how businesses are conducted, when holidays are due, etc.

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:02 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Whatever you call blank-days, they make nonsense of the week, and are unnecessary, given the availability of theleap-wee solution.

And let's not forget the little lesson of the World-Calendar, and the sound and decisive rejection of the unpopular blank-days proposal.

Jamison, you said that unpopularity is no problem, because all you have to do is coercively impose blank-days (along with abolition of the 7-day week) on people who don't want it. You said the government will do that. I asked "Why and when?"  Why would our government coerce that, and when?   ...particularly if, as you claimed, the calendar-change you speak of will help to end the current societal ruling-order? You didn't answer.

People now are proposing leap-week calendars because of the lesson that was learned from the experience of the World-Calendar and the unpopularity and rejection of its blank-days. As I said, some churches had even offered to support the new calendar if it used leap-weeks instead of blank-days.

Michael Ossipoff.
.

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Michael H Deckers <[hidden email]> wrote:
   On 2018-05-10 14:34, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC wrote:

I prefer the Latin-based extrahebdomadal or extraseptimanal in the same vain as extracalendarial, but applying only to the week.

   I prefer the intra-abdominal, or the Greek-based aseptic in my vein, even if not calendrical.

   Michael Deckers.




--
Amos Shapir
 
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Re: Blank Day

Michael Ossipoff
Yes, like a proposal that includes eliminating time-zones and date-line (Hanke-Henry).

You said:

there is no way to know which ideas may succeed

Yes, but there's a way to get a pretty good hint that an idea that won't succeed:  If blank-days was typically the expressed reason for rejecting the World Calendar, and if there's no particular reason to believe that the same population-segments and religious organizations have changed their feeling about the Sabbath, then it's a fairly safe bet that a proposal with blank-days isn't likely to succeed.

Michael Ossipoff




On Sat, May 12, 2018 at 3:26 AM, Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:
One lesson which can be learned from centuries of calendar reforms, is that while there is no way to know which ideas may succeed, it's quite clear that there is a way to sure failure: Trying to reform everything -- not just how days and years are counted, but also how people schedule their time, how businesses are conducted, when holidays are due, etc.

On Fri, May 11, 2018 at 9:02 PM, Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Whatever you call blank-days, they make nonsense of the week, and are unnecessary, given the availability of theleap-wee solution.

And let's not forget the little lesson of the World-Calendar, and the sound and decisive rejection of the unpopular blank-days proposal.

Jamison, you said that unpopularity is no problem, because all you have to do is coercively impose blank-days (along with abolition of the 7-day week) on people who don't want it. You said the government will do that. I asked "Why and when?"  Why would our government coerce that, and when?   ...particularly if, as you claimed, the calendar-change you speak of will help to end the current societal ruling-order? You didn't answer.

People now are proposing leap-week calendars because of the lesson that was learned from the experience of the World-Calendar and the unpopularity and rejection of its blank-days. As I said, some churches had even offered to support the new calendar if it used leap-weeks instead of blank-days.

Michael Ossipoff.
.

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Michael H Deckers <[hidden email]> wrote:
   On 2018-05-10 14:34, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC wrote:

I prefer the Latin-based extrahebdomadal or extraseptimanal in the same vain as extracalendarial, but applying only to the week.

   I prefer the intra-abdominal, or the Greek-based aseptic in my vein, even if not calendrical.

   Michael Deckers.




--
Amos Shapir
 

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Re: Blank Day

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Michael Ossipoff
Okay. I'm back for a bit. But I don't know for how long. I'm having a lot of medical problems still. But while I'm able I shall make a few points.

Eliminating the seven-day week would not truly be that difficult. For non-Christians, using a different week structure is already not unusual. Even Jews and Muslims have their own calendars, admittedly using a week of seven days, but that could be changed. 

 It is not a question of whether or not people want the change. It is a question of what would be best for them. The average American actually likes being told what to do. It gives him boundaries that he is generally unable to give to himself.

And to be quite honest, for those who are rebellious enough to not want to be told what to do, tightening the screws on them is probably a good idea. I believe in fundamentally paternalistic government. It is the only way to guarantee civilization remains unthreatened.

The example to follow here is the British Empire. When they went to other parts of the world, their goal was to make good British people out of the people they conquered. And they succeeded. People wanted to send their children to Oxford and Cambridge because they recognized the superiority of British civilization and culture. Even to this day, in the Commonwealth, it is a desire that is still had. Send your children to Britain to achieve civilization and education for them.

The French did much the same thing. The French did create one thing that just about anybody can admire, that being their perfect calendar. They may not have realized it, but coming up with the French Revolutionary calendar showed them to be light years ahead of other people around them. Imposing that brilliant device on our own population would do nothing more than make our population more civilized. One cannot even argue against that. The French calendar is simply better than anything else devised. To not use it is simply an absurdity.

It is the same with Decimal Time. It is much more logical than the current system we use. Its use should simply be imposed, and anybody who objects should simply be ignored.

Jamison

25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.

On Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:03 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Whatever you call blank-days, they make nonsense of the week, and are unnecessary, given the availability of theleap-wee solution.

And let's not forget the little lesson of the World-Calendar, and the sound and decisive rejection of the unpopular blank-days proposal.

Jamison, you said that unpopularity is no problem, because all you have to do is coercively impose blank-days (along with abolition of the 7-day week) on people who don't want it. You said the government will do that. I asked "Why and when?"  Why would our government coerce that, and when?   ...particularly if, as you claimed, the calendar-change you speak of will help to end the current societal ruling-order? You didn't answer.

People now are proposing leap-week calendars because of the lesson that was learned from the experience of the World-Calendar and the unpopularity and rejection of its blank-days. As I said, some churches had even offered to support the new calendar if it used leap-weeks instead of blank-days.

Michael Ossipoff.
.

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Michael H Deckers <[hidden email]> wrote:
   On 2018-05-10 14:34, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC wrote:

I prefer the Latin-based extrahebdomadal or extraseptimanal in the same vain as extracalendarial, but applying only to the week.

   I prefer the intra-abdominal, or the Greek-based aseptic in my vein, even if not calendrical.

   Michael Deckers.

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Re: Blank Day

Amos Shapir-2


On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:02 AM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Okay. I'm back for a bit. But I don't know for how long. I'm having a lot of medical problems still. But while I'm able I shall make a few points.

Eliminating the seven-day week would not truly be that difficult. For non-Christians, using a different week structure is already not unusual. Even Jews and Muslims have their own calendars, admittedly using a week of seven days, but that could be changed. 

No, it cannot be changed, not without harsh enforcement involving great loss of life (as you seem to realize yourself).


 It is not a question of whether or not people want the change. It is a question of what would be best for them. The average American actually likes being told what to do. It gives him boundaries that he is generally unable to give to himself.

But the average Jew definitely does NOT like being told what to do, judging from a long history.  I assume this applies to many other nations and groups.



And to be quite honest, for those who are rebellious enough to not want to be told what to do, tightening the screws on them is probably a good idea. I believe in fundamentally paternalistic government. It is the only way to guarantee civilization remains unthreatened.

So did most dictators throughout history... (I don't want to mention any names and get into Godwin's Law territory).



The example to follow here is the British Empire. When they went to other parts of the world, their goal was to make good British people out of the people they conquered. And they succeeded. People wanted to send their children to Oxford and Cambridge because they recognized the superiority of British civilization and culture. Even to this day, in the Commonwealth, it is a desire that is still had. Send your children to Britain to achieve civilization and education for them.

As history shows, when those children came back to their home lands, they often led the struggle for independence from Britain...



The French did much the same thing. The French did create one thing that just about anybody can admire, that being their perfect calendar. They may not have realized it, but coming up with the French Revolutionary calendar showed them to be light years ahead of other people around them. Imposing that brilliant device on our own population would do nothing more than make our population more civilized. One cannot even argue against that. The French calendar is simply better than anything else devised. To not use it is simply an absurdity.

It is the same with Decimal Time. It is much more logical than the current system we use. Its use should simply be imposed, and anybody who objects should simply be ignored.

Eliminating the 7-day week put the FR calendar in direct confrontation with the Church, which eventually caused the failure of the calendar.

The problem is, in matters of religion, people almost never think logically.


Jamison

25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.

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Re: Blank Day

Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC
In reply to this post by Michael H Deckers
Dear Calendar People

In the Wikipedia page on the World Calendar
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Calendar the blank days are referred to as intercalary days (rather than blank days). I can see they would be intercalary with respect to a week as a fixed fraction of a year, but not with respect to the year for which the only intercalary day is the leap day.

Perhaps that's why the Journal of Calendar Reform came up with "blank day" instead of "intercalary day".

Karl

17(04(29

-----Original Message-----
From: East Carolina University Calendar discussion List [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Michael H Deckers
Sent: 10 May 2018 22:50
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: Blank Day

    On 2018-05-10 14:34, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC wrote:

> I prefer the Latin-based extrahebdomadal or extraseptimanal in the same vain as extracalendarial, but applying only to the week.

    I prefer the intra-abdominal, or the Greek-based aseptic in my vein,
even if not calendrical.

    Michael Deckers.

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Re: Blank Day

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Amos Shapir-2
On Mon, May 14, 2018, 1:46 AM Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 9:02 AM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Okay. I'm back for a bit. But I don't know for how long. I'm having a lot of medical problems still. But while I'm able I shall make a few points.

Eliminating the seven-day week would not truly be that difficult. For non-Christians, using a different week structure is already not unusual. Even Jews and Muslims have their own calendars, admittedly using a week of seven days, but that could be changed. 

No, it cannot be changed, not without harsh enforcement involving great loss of life (as you seem to realize yourself).

Somewhat harsh enforcement? Maybe. Great loss of life? Hardly. Nobody cares that much.


 It is not a question of whether or not people want the change. It is a question of what would be best for them. The average American actually likes being told what to do. It gives him boundaries that he is generally unable to give to himself.

But the average Jew definitely does NOT like being told what to do, judging from a long history.  I assume this applies to many other nations and groups.

Actually, the average Jew does NOT mind being told what to do, as long as his beliefs are respected. In fact, I bet the French Republican Calendar would face far less objection from Jews than from others. As long as his beliefs are left alone...

And remember, everyone would be granted the half of the Quintidi, the entire Decade, and one other day per decade off. This could be the Jewish Sabbath for those who wanted it.



And to be quite honest, for those who are rebellious enough to not want to be told what to do, tightening the screws on them is probably a good idea. I believe in fundamentally paternalistic government. It is the only way to guarantee civilization remains unthreatened.

So did most dictators throughout history... (I don't want to mention any names and get into Godwin's Law territory).

You kind of already did. Godwin's Law. You lose, if we are being picky.



The example to follow here is the British Empire. When they went to other parts of the world, their goal was to make good British people out of the people they conquered. And they succeeded. People wanted to send their children to Oxford and Cambridge because they recognized the superiority of British civilization and culture. Even to this day, in the Commonwealth, it is a desire that is still had. Send your children to Britain to achieve civilization and education for them.

As history shows, when those children came back to their home lands, they often led the struggle for independence from Britain...

And the end result has been the following: MOST countries that were formerly part of the British Empire were a disaster before the British got there, and have BEEN a disaster ever since the British left. So much for the much-vaunted independence movements!




The French did much the same thing. The French did create one thing that just about anybody can admire, that being their perfect calendar. They may not have realized it, but coming up with the French Revolutionary calendar showed them to be light years ahead of other people around them. Imposing that brilliant device on our own population would do nothing more than make our population more civilized. One cannot even argue against that. The French calendar is simply better than anything else devised. To not use it is simply an absurdity.

It is the same with Decimal Time. It is much more logical than the current system we use. Its use should simply be imposed, and anybody who objects should simply be ignored.

Eliminating the 7-day week put the FR calendar in direct confrontation with the Church, which eventually caused the failure of the calendar.

The problem is, in matters of religion, people almost never think logically.

And one of the points of the French Republican Calendar is to strengthen laic government, and weaken the Church in terms of its control over civil society. Making the Churches pay business tax would help with that as well.


Jamison

25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.

Jamison
25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.

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Re: Blank Day

Michael Ossipoff
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Jamison:

Ii asked two simple questions. I've now asked them at least twice, with no reply.

1. Why should the existing government here want to coercively impose the FRC on a population who don't want it?  ..especially given your claim that the adoption of that calendar will help to bring down the existing societal order..  So the ruling-order will coercively act to impose something that will bring it down?

What indication or possible indication is there that the people who run this country have any inclination to impose the FRC on the population?

You enthusiastically advocate dictatorship, but is there any dictator or dictatorship that has shown any inclination to impose FRC on the population?

2. And when do you think the government here is going to do that? I have to admit that I haven't heard even one word about it from anyone in government here, or anywhere else in modern times.

At least the Hanke-Henry Calendar has gotten a little bit of favorable press, and a few media interviews. Can you say that for FRC?

Whatever might be our judgement regarding Hanke's proposal to put holidays on weekends (that would never be accepted), the 30,30,31 quarters and Nearest-Monday year-start comprise the easy minimal-change proposal.  Its only serious rival is ISO WeekDate, the simple, minimal bare-bones proposal--a calendar that is already in wide International use.

As I always add, I like FRC's seasonal/environmental references, for a time when people want it..

As I pointed out before, FRC would need a lot of local month-naming flexibility and variability in order for its seasonal references to have any meaning in most places.  And, as I've also been pointing out, for full international applicability, those seasonal references would have to be North-South neutral.  ...via a season-naming system that several of us here have already amply described.

The current civil calendar is accurate (low cyclical-displacement and slow drift), picturesque, and a precious antique museum-treasure.  If calendar-reform doesn't happen (and there's no reason to believe that it will happen), then that would be alright.

But calendar reform would be fine too. I'm for whatever the other people want, in that regard. Yes, the current Roman months have millennia-long-established seasonal meaning. But ISO WeekDate's 52 or 53 week-numbers would clearly tell how far through the year we are. Given that the year starts in roughly midwinter, then the week-number says a lot about progress through the year's seasons.

In short: Whatever people want would be fine with me. Keep the Roman-Gregorian, or change to a new calendar that people like better and want to change to.

It's all about what people want.

Michael Ossipoff



On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 2:02 AM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Okay. I'm back for a bit. But I don't know for how long. I'm having a lot of medical problems still. But while I'm able I shall make a few points.

Eliminating the seven-day week would not truly be that difficult. For non-Christians, using a different week structure is already not unusual. Even Jews and Muslims have their own calendars, admittedly using a week of seven days, but that could be changed. 

 It is not a question of whether or not people want the change. It is a question of what would be best for them. The average American actually likes being told what to do. It gives him boundaries that he is generally unable to give to himself.

And to be quite honest, for those who are rebellious enough to not want to be told what to do, tightening the screws on them is probably a good idea. I believe in fundamentally paternalistic government. It is the only way to guarantee civilization remains unthreatened.

The example to follow here is the British Empire. When they went to other parts of the world, their goal was to make good British people out of the people they conquered. And they succeeded. People wanted to send their children to Oxford and Cambridge because they recognized the superiority of British civilization and culture. Even to this day, in the Commonwealth, it is a desire that is still had. Send your children to Britain to achieve civilization and education for them.

The French did much the same thing. The French did create one thing that just about anybody can admire, that being their perfect calendar. They may not have realized it, but coming up with the French Revolutionary calendar showed them to be light years ahead of other people around them. Imposing that brilliant device on our own population would do nothing more than make our population more civilized. One cannot even argue against that. The French calendar is simply better than anything else devised. To not use it is simply an absurdity.

It is the same with Decimal Time. It is much more logical than the current system we use. Its use should simply be imposed, and anybody who objects should simply be ignored.

Jamison

25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.

On Fri, May 11, 2018, 1:03 PM Michael Ossipoff <[hidden email]> wrote:
Whatever you call blank-days, they make nonsense of the week, and are unnecessary, given the availability of theleap-wee solution.

And let's not forget the little lesson of the World-Calendar, and the sound and decisive rejection of the unpopular blank-days proposal.

Jamison, you said that unpopularity is no problem, because all you have to do is coercively impose blank-days (along with abolition of the 7-day week) on people who don't want it. You said the government will do that. I asked "Why and when?"  Why would our government coerce that, and when?   ...particularly if, as you claimed, the calendar-change you speak of will help to end the current societal ruling-order? You didn't answer.

People now are proposing leap-week calendars because of the lesson that was learned from the experience of the World-Calendar and the unpopularity and rejection of its blank-days. As I said, some churches had even offered to support the new calendar if it used leap-weeks instead of blank-days.

Michael Ossipoff.
.

On Thu, May 10, 2018 at 5:50 PM, Michael H Deckers <[hidden email]> wrote:
   On 2018-05-10 14:34, Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC wrote:

I prefer the Latin-based extrahebdomadal or extraseptimanal in the same vain as extracalendarial, but applying only to the week.

   I prefer the intra-abdominal, or the Greek-based aseptic in my vein, even if not calendrical.

   Michael Deckers.


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Re: Blank Day

Amos Shapir-2
In reply to this post by Jamison Painter
Hi Jamison and calendar people,




On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Actually, the average Jew does NOT mind being told what to do, as long as his beliefs are respected. In fact, I bet the French Republican Calendar would face far less objection from Jews than from others. As long as his beliefs are left alone...

And remember, everyone would be granted the half of the Quintidi, the entire Decade, and one other day per decade off. This could be the Jewish Sabbath for those who wanted it.

But they do not want it.  Even for non-religious Jews, the Jewish Sabbath involves so many rules and customs that any change in adhering to the 7-day cycle is equivalent to leaving the Jewish community altogether.  Many Jews had abandoned Judaism in the past, but I don't know of any who did it just to be able to use a different camendar...

As for religious Jews whose faith is respected, they already cope with the problem by taking days off in the middle of a work week when holidays occur; but that happens only a few times a year, not every week.
 
And the end result has been the following: MOST countries that were formerly part of the British Empire were a disaster before the British got there, and have BEEN a disaster ever since the British left. So much for the much-vaunted independence movements!


The point is, people would rather live under their own bad regime, than accept foreign rule, no matter how benevolent.
 
Jamison
25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.



--
Amos Shapir
III Sextidi 26 Floréal, Fusain (shrub), an CCXXVI
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Re: Blank Day

Walter J Ziobro

Oh yeah, look what a disaster the US has become since the British left.  Do you suppose Trump would have ever been Prime Minister of British America? ;-/

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Tuesday, May 15, 2018 Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Jamison and calendar people,




On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Actually, the average Jew does NOT mind being told what to do, as long as his beliefs are respected. In fact, I bet the French Republican Calendar would face far less objection from Jews than from others. As long as his beliefs are left alone...

And remember, everyone would be granted the half of the Quintidi, the entire Decade, and one other day per decade off. This could be the Jewish Sabbath for those who wanted it.

But they do not want it.  Even for non-religious Jews, the Jewish Sabbath involves so many rules and customs that any change in adhering to the 7-day cycle is equivalent to leaving the Jewish community altogether.  Many Jews had abandoned Judaism in the past, but I don't know of any who did it just to be able to use a different camendar...

As for religious Jews whose faith is respected, they already cope with the problem by taking days off in the middle of a work week when holidays occur; but that happens only a few times a year, not every week.
 
And the end result has been the following: MOST countries that were formerly part of the British Empire were a disaster before the British got there, and have BEEN a disaster ever since the British left. So much for the much-vaunted independence movements!


The point is, people would rather live under their own bad regime, than accept foreign rule, no matter how benevolent.
 
Jamison
25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.



--
Amos Shapir
III Sextidi 26 Floréal, Fusain (shrub), an CCXXVI
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Re: Blank Day

Jamison Painter
I am referring to all other parts of the Empire EXCEPT the USA. They never really left Canada, Australia, and New Zealand (witness the continued recognition of the Queen). 

But, pretty much ALL of former British Africa is a mess. Former British Caribbean is not so much a mess, so much as it is a joke. India, Pakistan, Bagladesh, a mess, more or less. Burma, a mess. Malaysia, a joke. 

And since I voted for Mr. Trump, I think as far as politics goes... He may be many things, but he is NOT a traitor, which Hilary is and has been for years. 

Remember, too, that if it were up to me, the US would still recognise the British Monarch. There was a book written back in about 1931 that advocated a Federation of ALL English-speaking territories, which amounted to what was then the British Empire, the US, Puerto Rico, and the Philippines, under the British Monarch. I remember reading that book in about the 9th Grade (for some weird reason it was in my high school library). I remember being rather impressed by the arguments, although I was rather young. Since then, I have gotten my BA in History with an emphasis in British Renaissance History (from about Henry VII to the beginning of the reign of Charles II), a BA in Philosophy, and an MA in History, with an emphasis in British Renaissance History, particularly the period of Henry VIII.

Although I admire the French, and the French Republican Calendar, and the Revolution IN France, I particularly particularly admire the British ability to control one-fourth of the world's land and people, and to do so with constitutional government. The Sudan was completely administered by 140 British Civil Servants! The current Sudanese Government can barely get out of its own way, let alone be that efficient!

And the British have managed to maintain Throne, Altar, AND Constitutional Government. The other Monarchs in Europe have only done that by copying the British example! As the last King of Egypt once said, one day we may wake up and find that there are five kings left in the world: those in a deck of cards and the King of the UK. He was overthrown shortly after saying this.

So, yes, I think it can safely be said that one of the best things the world has ever had is the British Empire. If in fact the advice in that 1931 book had been followed, the world might be a MUCH better place for it.

Jamison

26 Floréal CCXXVI,, Spindle Shrub.


On Tue, May 15, 2018, 9:23 AM Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Oh yeah, look what a disaster the US has become since the British left.  Do you suppose Trump would have ever been Prime Minister of British America? ;-/

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


On Tuesday, May 15, 2018 Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi Jamison and calendar people,




On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Actually, the average Jew does NOT mind being told what to do, as long as his beliefs are respected. In fact, I bet the French Republican Calendar would face far less objection from Jews than from others. As long as his beliefs are left alone...

And remember, everyone would be granted the half of the Quintidi, the entire Decade, and one other day per decade off. This could be the Jewish Sabbath for those who wanted it.

But they do not want it.  Even for non-religious Jews, the Jewish Sabbath involves so many rules and customs that any change in adhering to the 7-day cycle is equivalent to leaving the Jewish community altogether.  Many Jews had abandoned Judaism in the past, but I don't know of any who did it just to be able to use a different camendar...

As for religious Jews whose faith is respected, they already cope with the problem by taking days off in the middle of a work week when holidays occur; but that happens only a few times a year, not every week.
 
And the end result has been the following: MOST countries that were formerly part of the British Empire were a disaster before the British got there, and have BEEN a disaster ever since the British left. So much for the much-vaunted independence movements!


The point is, people would rather live under their own bad regime, than accept foreign rule, no matter how benevolent.
 
Jamison
25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.



--
Amos Shapir
III Sextidi 26 Floréal, Fusain (shrub), an CCXXVI
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Re: Blank Day

Jamison Painter
In reply to this post by Karl Palmen - UKRI STFC
And keep in mind that when the USA left Britain, her Empire, and the motives behind it, did not really exist as such. At the time, the British controlled a few areas. In fact, it was not even so much BRITISH control as it was ENGLISH control. Until 1707 and the Act of Union, England and Scotland were separate Kingdoms under one Monarch.

Even though the USA left in 1776 AFTER the Act of Union, the concept of a United Kingdom of Great Britain (Ireland would not join the Union until 1801, and Northern Ireland would not become an element, with the Irish Free State a reality, until 1922) would not really make a check of a lot of sense for some time. The US perceived itself as fighting for the rights of ENGLISHMEN, not Scotsmen or Britishers.

The idea of the BRITISH Empire, wherein the BRITISH (not the English) set out to make the world BRITISH (not English), would not really come about until after the Act of Union in 1801 with Ireland. Until then, the ENGLISH sought to live apart from the people they conquered (Aboriginals in Australia, Maori in New Zealand, Natives in the USA and Canada, the Irish in Ireland). It was when the BRITISH went to places such as Africa and India that they sought to make the conquered people realise the blessings of what it meant to be BRITISH.

Now, I do NOT say that this occurred without a lot of crap involved. The British Empire was no more perfect than anything is. There was racism and evil in the Empire. But, in the end-all and be-all, the blessings of Empire by far outweighed the evils. Even many of the conquered knew, and especially today know, that. Look at Zimbabwe-Rhodesia, where after years of misrule by Mugabe, many Black residents of that country will themselves tell you that many things under Ian Smith's government were better. As they say: At least Mr. Smith kept the lights on.

Jamison

26 Floréal CCXXVI, Spindle Shrub.

Walter J Ziobro <[hidden email]> wrote:

Oh yeah, look what a disaster the US has become since the British left.  Do you suppose Trump would have ever been Prime Minister of British America? ;-/

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Tuesday, May 15, 2018 Amos Shapir <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Jamison and calendar people,




On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Actually, the average Jew does NOT mind being told what to do, as long as his beliefs are respected. In fact, I bet the French Republican Calendar would face far less objection from Jews than from others. As long as his beliefs are left alone...

And remember, everyone would be granted the half of the Quintidi, the entire Decade, and one other day per decade off. This could be the Jewish Sabbath for those who wanted it.

But they do not want it.  Even for non-religious Jews, the Jewish Sabbath involves so many rules and customs that any change in adhering to the 7-day cycle is equivalent to leaving the Jewish community altogether.  Many Jews had abandoned Judaism in the past, but I don't know of any who did it just to be able to use a different camendar...

As for religious Jews whose faith is respected, they already cope with the problem by taking days off in the middle of a work week when holidays occur; but that happens only a few times a year, not every week.
 
And the end result has been the following: MOST countries that were formerly part of the British Empire were a disaster before the British got there, and have BEEN a disaster ever since the British left. So much for the much-vaunted independence movements!


The point is, people would rather live under their own bad regime, than accept foreign rule, no matter how benevolent.
 
Jamison
25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.



--
Amos Shapir
III Sextidi 26 Floréal, Fusain (shrub), an CCXXVI
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Re: Blank Day

Walter J Ziobro

Dear Sir Jamison

I was being a bit sarcastic when I mentioned Trump. Although I have thought it would be interesting if the US joined the Commonwealth We are eligible, you know.

BTW you do know that the US intelligence community is part of the Five Eyes network? (US UK Canada Australia and NZ) Some people believe it is the heart of a grand Anglo American conspiracy

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail




On Tuesday, May 15, 2018 Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:

And keep in mind that when the USA left Britain, her Empire, and the motives behind it, did not really exist as such. At the time, the British controlled a few areas. In fact, it was not even so much BRITISH control as it was ENGLISH control. Until 1707 and the Act of Union, England and Scotland were separate Kingdoms under one Monarch.

Even though the USA left in 1776 AFTER the Act of Union, the concept of a United Kingdom of Great Britain (Ireland would not join the Union until 1801, and Northern Ireland would not become an element, with the Irish Free State a reality, until 1922) would not really make a check of a lot of sense for some time. The US perceived itself as fighting for the rights of ENGLISHMEN, not Scotsmen or Britishers.

The idea of the BRITISH Empire, wherein the BRITISH (not the English) set out to make the world BRITISH (not English), would not really come about until after the Act of Union in 1801 with Ireland. Until then, the ENGLISH sought to live apart from the people they conquered (Aboriginals in Australia, Maori in New Zealand, Natives in the USA and Canada, the Irish in Ireland). It was when the BRITISH went to places such as Africa and India that they sought to make the conquered people realise the blessings of what it meant to be BRITISH.

Now, I do NOT say that this occurred without a lot of crap involved. The British Empire was no more perfect than anything is. There was racism and evil in the Empire. But, in the end-all and be-all, the blessings of Empire by far outweighed the evils. Even many of the conquered knew, and especially today know, that. Look at Zimbabwe-Rhodesia, where after years of misrule by Mugabe, many Black residents of that country will themselves tell you that many things under Ian Smith's government were better. As they say: At least Mr. Smith kept the lights on.

Jamison

26 Floréal CCXXVI, Spindle Shrub.

Walter J Ziobro <000000080342b460-dmarc-request@...> wrote:

Oh yeah, look what a disaster the US has become since the British left.  Do you suppose Trump would have ever been Prime Minister of British America? ;-/

Walter Ziobro

Sent from AOL Mobile Mail


On Tuesday, May 15, 2018 Amos Shapir <amos083@...> wrote:
Hi Jamison and calendar people,




On Mon, May 14, 2018 at 8:32 PM, Jamison Painter <[hidden email]> wrote:
Actually, the average Jew does NOT mind being told what to do, as long as his beliefs are respected. In fact, I bet the French Republican Calendar would face far less objection from Jews than from others. As long as his beliefs are left alone...

And remember, everyone would be granted the half of the Quintidi, the entire Decade, and one other day per decade off. This could be the Jewish Sabbath for those who wanted it.

But they do not want it.  Even for non-religious Jews, the Jewish Sabbath involves so many rules and customs that any change in adhering to the 7-day cycle is equivalent to leaving the Jewish community altogether.  Many Jews had abandoned Judaism in the past, but I don't know of any who did it just to be able to use a different camendar...

As for religious Jews whose faith is respected, they already cope with the problem by taking days off in the middle of a work week when holidays occur; but that happens only a few times a year, not every week.
 
And the end result has been the following: MOST countries that were formerly part of the British Empire were a disaster before the British got there, and have BEEN a disaster ever since the British left. So much for the much-vaunted independence movements!


The point is, people would rather live under their own bad regime, than accept foreign rule, no matter how benevolent.
 
Jamison
25 Floréal CCXXVI, Carp.



--
Amos Shapir
III Sextidi 26 Floréal, Fusain (shrub), an CCXXVI
12